DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

I went to go somewhere this morning and got the car out of the garage and then stopped it to shut the garage then having shut the garage I started it again but this time the starter remained engaged.

I turned the ignition off and I think took the key out and the engine stopped firing but the starter kept spinning!!

By this time I was getting worried (very) and I in the absence of any other ideas I restarted the engine and revved it up and the starter disengaged.
I then put the car back in the garage and took the vw instead.
The starter itself is relatively new - maybe a couple of years old.
What is going on?

There are 3 things I would look at which are 1) is the starter motor attached properly or is it lose, 2) is the ignition switch working correctly i.e. does the key return to the running position when released after starting and 3) is the solenoid on the starter sticking.

Good luck!

Thanks nj1052
With a lot of help with suggestions from Mick (grannysmith) I took off the main power lead to the starter and then tried the switch again. This resulted in a click of the solenoid and a softer click of it returning so I thought that proved that the wiring through the ignition switch was ok but when I reconnected the main power lead (and reconnected the batteries) I got nothing. Not even the fuel pump working, no clicks, no nothing.
However the lights and hazards work but nothing that uses the ignition switch. Today I will attack it with a multi meter. But the switch is looking like a likely candidate.

Ok it is all working again.

There are several secondary wires attached to the battery terminal and disturbing these leads had been the final straw for them and they had sheared off very cleanly. They must have been breaking for a long time. I have now reattached them securely and it all works.

It took me ages to find the actual reason why nothing worked and I did a lot of exploring of the darker recesses of my car in the process

So I am now back where I started except I still do not know what caused the original problem. All the same I suspect I would have been stranded at some time with the battery wires breaking and would not have been able to find the problem on the road so it is good that it happened at home.

I also now know what the back of the ignition switch looks like as I partially separated the electrical block from the key part until I chickened out as I was worried that all the pins that I could see would fall out. Do they?

What has become apparent to me is that the air conditioning system has a lot of wiring attached and also there are a lot of units all over the car that I might be better off removing.

So should I replace the starter motor? Is it a problem of a sticky solenoid that is going to reoccur? The one on there is a rebuilt one from 2012.
Will I damage anything if it sticks again and I just rev it up to disengage it? If not I think I will leave it and if it ever reoccurs I will then take it off and try to get someone to test it properly.

Ramble over.
... and a big thank you to Mick who help me enormously.

Hi
Unable to help you Jason, but glad you're all sorted.!

It sounds like you have eliminated the electrical issues so that leaves the solenoid. Leaving it as is and assuming that if it does happen again you can clear it in the same way sounds to me like a good opportunity of getting stuck somewhere in the dark and rain. I would take it off and sort it out properly.

Cheers

Hi nj1052

You are probably right and if I was sure that it was the starter motor solenoid that was at fault I would do so but it is by all accounts a difficult job as the top nut is out of sight and difficult to reach.
I wish I knew that it was the starter motor/ solenoid that was the problem but I cannot think how I could test it as the basic test I did seemed to point to it working ok.

What returns the solenoid?
Is is spring driven or current driven?
If it is current then I suppose the dodgy connections that go to the ignition switch could be responsible

The existing starter motor is an exchange unit from mid 2012 so has less than 25000 miles usage.
Also an exchange unit is over £200 + a holding charge of £100 for the exchange.

The solenoid is spring return. I once had a starter behave in a similar manner when it came lose causing the pinion to mis-align and get jammed in the engaged position together with the solenoid thus completing the circuit. Easy to check if not done so far. Otherwise I would pull the starter and go through it properly.

Good luck!

Ok nj1052
I have taken your advice and have taken the starter assembly off. The picture you painted of a dark rainy night is what tipped the balance!

I am not convinced that there is much wrong with it and wondered if your know of somewhere that might test it and potentially fix it preferably within easy reach of west london.

At some stage I might do a write up of how to get the starter off as I could not find one.
BTW Thank you for your help. You and Mick have made all the difference.

Just to complete this thread I got an exchange unit from type911 and fitted it yesterday. Type911 did tell me that it is most often the solenoid that causes an issue which made be feel better about replacing the old one.