DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Ok so its very very very unlikely that I would sell but could I realistically expect to get £30K for my car as it stands in bits along with all the panels etc i've bought? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=52081&start=15
Its currently next in line with Barry who has assessed the shell and says its a real nice unmolested example.

1970 2.2E RHD Sportomatic

The Good.
RHD
Totally Stripped, 100+ hrs saved, well labelled, 99.5% complete - will need carpet set etc.
All new panels bought for car as spec'd by barry - 2 x rear quarters, 2 x front wings, rear bumper corners, Front bumper(dansk but looks very good), Door skins, inner/outer sills, battery trays etc etc. Several grands worth
All underseal removed ready for blasting.
very clean in lots of the usual places
very original - was off the road by 1986 so little to no bodging.
Tangerine
Matching numbers
new SS heat exchangers and box
New pads and disks
New window seals
New other bits and pieces and good used indicator lens etc sourced

The Bad.
Its a Sporto
not much history


I moved to london 3 years ago and had previously assumed i'd move back to Norfolk in the near future where i'd be able to enjoy the car. I'm now very happy in London and see myself staying here for a good few more years, this has got me looking at flat prices and the only way I could afford to buy one is to sell almost everything I own. The 911 would be the last thing I choose to sell but if I could realistically expect to sell it for £30K plus I might have to seriously think about it.

I can't help with its potential value but I wouldn't consider the fact that it's a Sporto model a minus point ...

Lightweight_911 wrote:I can't help with its potential value but I wouldn't consider the fact that it's a Sporto model a minus point ...

....no, an easy change

Only just on topic, but I suppose it is some kind of price point. If I were buying an E Sporto, this would be the one:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums ... orig-miles
13K original miles.
And the absolute best colour bar none
Amazing.

For those doing resto man maths, the current market says Frank can't shift this beautiful time capsule for 120K US dollars. Must surely be due to the Sporto?
Anyway: measured against this gold standard it seems to me that 120K USD is, therefore, the absolute upper limit on the value of any kind of E Sporto.
At the moment.
Maybe when the millennials rule the market none of them will know how to drive a manual, and Sporto values will go bonkers. We'll all be doing Sporto conversions to capitalise. Someone enterprising will find a way of retrofitting a PDK box.

It might be a doable exchange but it always then suffers from the stigma of 'used to be a sporto'.

This is not in anyway a personal opinion but merely an observation of the market. I have never driven a sporto, some like them, but it has remained the one thing which puts people off buying more than anything else. I can back up this with the most perfect example. There is a beautiful one owner 2.2E in signal orange (original paint) 12000 miles or so from new, in what can only be described as time warp condition that has been for sale (and caused much discussion) for several months at approx $130k without selling. It's a sporto and if it had been 5 speed I'm sure it would be well gone and probably for a lot more cash. The owner asked the question 'what if I converted it to manual, would it sell better?' and the most common reply was 'well, it wouldn't be original then would it'.

Regards
Mike

Richard

You beat me to it.

Regards
Mike

Ha ha!
If I remember rightly, Frank was down to 120 at one point, still no takers.
Tempted?

It's a lovely example.......

Regards
Mike

210bhp wrote:It's a lovely example.......

But it's a Sporto

Just to clarify - my comment that I didn't consider the fact that the car is a Sporto to be a minus point wasn't (directly) related to the value question.

Although the 'market' decided (some years ago) that Sporto models were worth significantly less than manual models in equivalent condition, I believe this to be an ill-informed decision based on ignorance.

How many people who dismiss/denigrate Sporto models have actually driven one - even more so one that has been maintained correctly so that the Sporto transmission works as intended ?

Over the years I've had the opportunity to drive a few Sportos (from memory all were E models) & am a big fan - a 2.2E Sporto (if correctly set-up/maintained) is a great combination.

One of the problems which has added to the 'myth' is finding someone with the relevant expertise with Sporto transmissions but within DDK we are lucky enough to have at least two such people - Chris Turner (butzsi) & Berny Tester (Berny) - plus probably Mike Bainbridge (but I'm not certain).

inaglasshouse wrote:.....If I were buying an E Sporto, this would be the one:.....

....I don't follow the For Sale ads so I've never noticed it.......incredible car, if only I had the money!

But then I'd still covert it!

Lightweight_911 wrote:Just to clarify - my comment that I didn't consider the fact that the car is a Sporto to be a minus point wasn't (directly) related to the value question.

Although the 'market' decided (some years ago) that Sporto models were worth significantly less than manual models in equivalent condition, I believe this to be an ill-informed decision based on ignorance.

How many people who dismiss/denigrate Sporto models have actually driven one - even more so one that has been maintained correctly so that the Sporto transmission works as intended ?

Over the years I've had the opportunity to drive a few Sportos (from memory all were E models) & am a big fan - a 2.2E Sporto (if correctly set-up/maintained) is a great combination.

One of the problems which has added to the 'myth' is finding someone with the relevant expertise with Sporto transmissions but within DDK we are lucky enough to have at least two such people - Chris Turner (butzsi) & Berny Tester (Berny) - plus probably Mike Bainbridge (but I'm not certain).

All good points.
Also on the value question: I find it possible to convince myself that a Sporto might have more headroom for future returns. It's a bit of a novelty, and more so because lots seem to have been converted.
This particular car could easily end up as the best remaining Sporto in the world. What price such a car, to someone who has several early 911s already and is intrigued with the engineering? Find another!
But, for now, the market has spoken.

You tempted Richard?

Regards
Mike

Yes!
But too many cars, not enough garages.
Could leave it in lovely dry Arizona, visit it every year in the winter. There's a thought...
I like Arizona.
Cheers, Richard.

I just clicked on the link in (Richard's post) to the Sporto offered for sale by Frank Beck & thought something looked familiar about it ...

- realised it was a car I had considered buying back in ~ 2004 when owned by Frank Gallogly in New Jersey - I'm sure I have the photos/details Frank G sent me (somewhere).

It would be interesting if I have a note of the asking price back then ...