DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Morning,

I'm preparing the scary spreadsheet of parts to put my '72 T engine back together (as stock) and have obtained some prices from Porsche, Type911 and Mittlemotor.

It's fair to say the spread is ridiculous! I'm more than aware of the effort that goes into an OE part rather than aftermarket, but I'd be surprised if 40+ years down the line the parts were anything other than the same in a branded box. SO based on real experience what would you put in your engine?

For instance:

Conrod bolt (set): OE: £148 Mittlemotor £133 Type911 £112

I can see these all being the same part, however:

Conrod nut (set): OE: £178 Mittlemotor £17 Type911 £14

It's just a plain (admittedly high grade) M8 nut...

Big end bearings (set): OE £344 Mittlemotor £62 Type911 £106
Crank bearings (set): OE £428 Mittlemotor £86 Type911 £180

This can't just be OE mark up? Can it?

Oh and the oil tank is still a grand!

Gary, i feel your pain. I used Joma parts.

Maybe worth downloading there price list. I, and a few other DDK folk have found them to be one of the cheapest out there.
Good luck with the build.

Dave

Gary,
I used Rosepassion for some stuff and boughtn OEM others. There was a problem with a type of aftermarket crank bearings, can't remember which ones, but a check on Pelican will see you right.

R

Thanks. I'd not heard of Joma before. The bearings seem to be Glyco in the aftermarket and a quick google suggested packaging issues resulting in damage rather than issues with the base parts.

I guess a dry build with Plastigauge is called for no matter what!

All opinions welcome. I don't want to buy cheap and buy twice, but also don't want to pay through the nose for the same parts.

Difficult to tell sometimes until the parts a in front of you

One example, those special tapered threaded pins for front strut to ball joint ... Type911 Oem one just didn't fit well ... Official opc part was perfect

I would research each individual part, ask around (Mike Bainbridge?) for real life experiences and reliability issues and buy the best part in each catagorie wherever it comes from.

You are only going to do it once.......


Regards
Mike


Edit: and what would be really useful is posting links on here and conversations you've had which brings you to the decision you've made and why. It would really help others contemplating the same type of build.

210bhp wrote:I would research each individual part, ask around (Mike Bainbridge?) for real life experiences and reliability issues and buy the best part in each catagorie wherever it comes from.

Totally agree, hence the post

210bhp wrote:what would be really useful is posting links on here and conversations you've had which brings you to the decision you've made and why. It would really help others contemplating the same type of build.

Of course. In the world of money no object then OEM all the way, but I live in the real world

I would think that you should be able to buy Glyco Rod Bearing set for around €60 for standard sizes.

There are some reported issues with Glyco Clearances reported in the USA and Cleevite bearings may be an alternative.

I have used Glyco at these prices without issue.

Glyco mains should be about €120 with the thrust bearing and again work just fine.

Rod bolts should be about €9 each and rod nuts €1.25 each.

it is only early 2.0 engines where rod bolts need to be replaced. Volume I of the Workshop manual recommended this in the 1965 edition but all subsequent editions removed this recommendation. At a few euros each it may be worth the peace of mind but at Porsche prices I just wouldn't replace them.

I wouldn't pay much more for parts for a standard engines but we are being taught that unless we use the type of materials used in jet fighter engines the results will be a disaster.

I believe that a standard T engine built with parts supplied by a reputable supplier such as Rose Passion (as has been suggested) will work well and be reliable.

Thank you. Excellent information and the reassurance I need that I'm heading in the right direction.

I agree if you spend too much time reading on the subject then you can convince yourself that unless you do every trick and buy everything OE then your engine will explode on the first turn of the key! I'm seeking a good clean build rather than a R replica.

Have you seen this line from the 'vehicles for sale' section (1970 911E Race Prepared Coupe) :

"Race prepared with full engine rebuild having been completed at Tuthills - the parts alone for the engine rebuild cost £26,000 ..."

Yes I did see that! Even with everything brand new from Porsche, Ti rods, diamond encrusted pistons etc etc I still don't know how you could get it up that high!

That's one parts list I'd love to see!

Read too much and you will pay that sum...

I rebuilt my hillclimb 3.2 using type911 as the sole supplier of parts and Mike Bainbridge to correct machining that a top man could not do right.

Nothing has failed in 2 stressful years of regular beating against rev limiters and red lines at low engine temps etc.
You have seen how extreme hillclimb engines get beaten up Gary.

It is a standard engine and low stressed too, aftermarket is just fine.

The bill will still be huge, but that is air cooled flat 6 tax as all 911s are worth £100K and more...so the parts need to also!

Anyway,
I thought you would be close to finishing the long block by now!

Following the recommendations on here and via pm I've compiled this list, purely based from the web, not spoken to anyone as yet. I've not done Joma yet as the 190+ page price list put me off a little! Gaps in the table are where I can't easily get prices from the online shops.



As you can see Rose Passion pretty much have the job. And to save anyone the maths it add up to £1550 including the oil tank.

I've probably missed loads off, but this covers most of the expensive bits. Other than getting the cams welded up and refacing the rockers etc...

New rings?
New chain ramps?
100 for cleaners, loctite etc at least.

I have the perfect solution Gary. Spread the cost over several years (maybe not 8!) and that way you can't remember how much you spent