DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

whats makes a late model 997 so special?
or are they?

whats makes a late model 997 so special?

In comparison to what? I'm sure they are wonderful cars, but if you have 5 kids and a labrador they aren't much use.

The run-out GTS model is rather nice - half way between a stodgy, lazy standard 997 and a GT3RS.

nick-moss wrote:... but if you have 5 kids and a labrador they aren't much use.

You've kept that quiet Nick !

bugbob wrote:whats makes a late model 997 so special?
or are they?

Bugger all. The replacement due from September will be a better car in all regards.

Ian.

If I take the passenger seat out I can fit the labrador in, so I will take a 997 GT3RS 4.0 please

nick-moss wrote:If I take the passenger seat out I can fit the labrador in, so I will take a 997 GT3RS 4.0 please

That is the only modern porsche for a number of years I'd really fancy owning and unless you fancy PAL al over the interior, the Lab should probably stay at home with the 5 kids

Sam @ PS Autoart wrote:The run-out GTS model is rather nice - half way between a stodgy, lazy standard 997 and a GT3RS.

A tad harsh Sam. Standard 997.1 is a cracking car - hardly stodgy - and I run a 996.2 GT3 as well. Mind you, just traded the GT3 for a 2.2 911s so may change my perspective soon....

higs356 wrote:

nick-moss wrote:If I take the passenger seat out I can fit the labrador in, so I will take a 997 GT3RS 4.0 please

That is the only modern porsche for a number of years I'd really fancy owning and unless you fancy PAL al over the interior, the Lab should probably stay at home with the 5 kids

The interior of the latest GT2 would make the Lab feel very nauseous - not the most subtle I gave seen. Fortunately the RS is a little tamer ( and less red) - interior wise at least.

Drmark wrote:A tad harsh Sam. Standard 997.1 is a cracking car - hardly stodgy - and I run a 996.2 GT3 as well. Mind you, just traded the GT3 for a 2.2 911s so may change my perspective soon....

Possibly a bit mean, but I stand by it.

Don't get me wrong, in isolation the standard Carrera is OK, it's just when you drive a more focused derivative (even just the GTS) you immediately see how much accuracy and feedback they dialled out of it to make it appeal to Audi drivers.

Have a go in a 997 GT3. That's the car the Carrera should be; miles comfier and easier to drive than the 996 GT3, miles more alive than a boggo 997.

All that said, if they didn't sell thousands of Carreras to people who want comfy daily transport above thrills we probably wouldn't have the GTx cars at all.

Jolly good choice on the 2.2. Possibly my favourite 911 - most of the thrills of the 2.4 but with first gear in the correct place.

A different perspective on this?

The cars we own and enjoy (pre'74) were insanely expensive by comparison to modern 997's. From memory my 2.7 RS would, when new, have been about the price of a Zonda today.

The 997.2 however is the price of an expensive BMW or Audi today.

We have a 997.2 Carrera 2 with PDK and I'm afraid you cannot call it stodgy! Ok, it's no GT3 but we didn't want a GT3 (I've owned several in the past). We wanted a 'special' car to go out in, go on weekends away (when someone looks after the kids!), to have a nice blat in on a crisp morning in the autumn and winter (when you don't want salt on the ungalvanized shell of the RS or the 356 ) and something as an antidote to the Volvo V70 we bought to compliment the 997

Our 997.2 fulfils all of this and more.

IF you want a high performance sports car to do sports car things, the GT3, GT3RS and GT2 (and it's price) are wonderful. Turbo makes a wonderful continent crusher. The Gallardo is fun as is the 430 (360 a bit clinical), some people like Astons (then again, some people like fish pedicures!) - there's loads of choice but the key is the 997 *base isn't priced at the level of these and, in my mind is a very different car.

IF you want the best (IMHO) built and most interesting daily driver the 997.2 Carrera 2 is wonderful. It handles, stops and goes like nothing else you can buy for the £50k they now sell for.

What makes the difference between the .1 and .2? The 997.2 C2 has almost the same power as the 997.1 C2S and the 997.2S makes as much as the old 996 GT3!. The Direct Injection makes for a wonderfully interesting engine - torquey where you want it and the top end sizzles. The PDK is incredible - very close on a genuine alternative to a sequential box, yet when in 7th at 1.800RPM means you can get 37mpg on a cruise (I've done it regularly) and is a hundred billion leagues away from the ruddy awful Tip box.

The fit and finish is much higher than 997.1 or 996 - things like iPod and Bluetooth actually work and don't invalidate the warranty and the sat nav is touch screen like the rest of this century's cars.

Are they 'special'? No. It's not like a 458 Italia or a GT3RS. But it costs a half or a quarter of the price.

Are they 'exciting'? IMHO, compared to an R8, M3 or M5, Vantage yes. They are because they are fun at lesser speeds than you have to hit on the 'big' tin to make them interesting.

Are they 'classics'? No.

Does that help at all?

Philip

That's actually the same perspective isn't it?

They're a fine alternative to a BMW or Audi as a daily but this, by design, means they're not as special or thrilling to drive. The fact that you mention the quality of the iPod and Bluetooth says everything about where the cars are now positioned in the market and what is now important to 911 buyers. This certainly isn't a bad thing, it's just not what 911s were about from 1964 to 1998.

The only point I disagree on is :

It handles, stops and goes like nothing else you can buy for the £50k they now sell for.

If you can ever find the time nip along to your local Porsche dealer and have a go in a Cayman R. I suspect that by the end of the first corner you will have a different view.

Sam @ PS Autoart wrote:The only point I disagree on is :

It handles, stops and goes like nothing else you can buy for the £50k they now sell for.

If you can ever find the time nip along to your local Porsche dealer and have a go in a Cayman R. I suspect that by the end of the first corner you will have a different view.

Fair point - perhaps I should have clarified "nothing else you can buy for the £50k.... that you can get two small kids in the back and won't take your fillings out over Hampshire roads"

Cant say that I am interested in iPods or Bluetooth, but I have had an 89 3.2, two 964s and two 993's and none of them would know which way my last 997s had gone down a decent road (although I agree a Cayman R most definitely would).

Older 911s may be more special to drive, but that doesn't make the 997 stodgy - it's just very good at what it does. Almost too good.