DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Strange question, but I was wondering on the history of the Iron Cross logo used on Outlaws and hotrods etc.
The reason I ask is that some eastern european builders we had round recently ( ) saw an iron cross tyre valve cap on one of my cars and proceded to tell me it was a Nazi logo and if I had it out in his country I could be arrested for it ! He was being very sincere over it too.
I think its cool but having recently been threatened for wearing a red C.C.C.P shirt in town last week, I am beginning to take note of logos and their real meaning !

Dan

The original Iron Cross probably dates back to Crusader times. It was adopted as a recognition of bravery in the 18C but it was only during WW2 that it was impressed with a swastika and it is that version which was subsequently banned.

Having said that, there are plenty of places in Europe where German insignia are unlikely to be welcomed!

Bob

I think that although the Iron Cross symbol existed before the Nazis it has definitely been tainted by their evil. I think it's also used by some white supremisists.

Although I personally wouldn't be at all offended by an Iron Cross, I can see why some people might be, especially seeing it on a car bearing the name of one of Hitlers designers.

The swastika is flipped Hindu symbol, though I doubt that anyone, who wasn't obviously Hindu, would display it now. Probably won't have time to explain it's origins before a violent reaction.

I think the threats over the C.C.C.P t-shirt were a bit weird, had they in some way been on the receiving end of a Soviet atrocity, were they right wing extremists, or do you think they just wanted a fight?

When I see the C.C.C.P. logo I think of sport or space travel, but like you say symbols are sometimes used by fashion without any thought.

What a wonderful place DDk is, I bet there is'nt another forum that has topics like this!

The actually cross design that became the German Iron Cross dates back the the Teutonic Knights of the 14th century. The actual cross goes back to just after Christ for obvious reasons and was used by St John of Jeruslum when he established the Hospitallers, which is why every ambulance has a cross on it. As Bob said it then came to prominance again at the time of the Crusades when the Knights of the order of St John or the Knights Hospitallers of Jerusalem were established on Malta to care for the Crusaders, Malta had by then taken a style of cross as it's symbol and so did they. It also has been used in heraldry and for medals, being a symbol of bravery etc. That's the extent of my knowledge, why it is used on so called 'outlaw' cars I have no idea!

Just as an aside, on the way back from the 914 International in Holland a few of us stopped off in Tilburg, at some traffic lights a Dutch registered Harley pulled up alongside with it's rider wearing a German coal scuttle helmet, now you would'nt think that would be very popular in Holland.....

Despite its origins when used in the period modified car scene (hotrods outlaws etc etc.) - its a rebelious symbol - sometimes called a'maltese cross' by vendors (no doubt for pr purposes).

I'm sure it is used on was used on the Dean Jeffries outlaw Porsche in the 50's to ruffle a few feathers as no doubt it did! Hardcore bikers of the 60 and 70's era used many items from the nazi uniform (deaths head logo, swastikas, stormtrooper helmets etc) no doubt for the same effect.

Personally I wouldn't use one on my car as I think the strongest current link for the symbol is to the German army medal and not to Teutonic Knights!

Time to get off me soapbox now!!

Steve

My Old Man tells me he had one on his Jago T in the mid 60's, and wore a german helmet. Works for me too...



I fully understand the origins of the Iron Cross when used in a military context but with the current distillation of the symbol into a pop graphic, the original connotations are thankfully losing their relevance. It reminds me of a 70's Rowan and Martin sketch were admen were trying to put a smiley rebranding on the Nazi party...