DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

I have discovered that the cam chain ramps have been mashed to a thousand pieces and scattered about the crankcase. (There was also a broken drill bit in there too !!)
I don't want to get into an engine rebuild, but am resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to at least strip the engine down to clean out the crankcase.
Assuming that
1) I'm doing this all myself
2) I dont replace anything "whilst I'm in here" (Yeah , right !!)

What are the likely costs of consumables ? Gaskets, seals etc
Anyone ?

Tim,

Always easy to spend other people's money, but a complete strip-down represents quite a few hours work. If it has to be done - and it does sound as though it is neccessary - then surely it makes sense to ensure that everything is put right so the engine is good for another 100,000 miles?

If you can get away without replacing anything serious, my guess would be a couple of hundred pounds for gaskets, seals etc., but with the proviso that it could be a heck of a lot more if you have to replace very much.

Bob

ps. Worth looking at the prices for complete gasket and fastening kits on the Pelican site. Very soon starts to add up.......................

I'm interested it this as well Tim. When my engine comes out I will at the very least have to replace the chains and ramps and I think my piston rings are shot (but will not know until I start stripping in down). I will also most likely redo the valve guides. I just need for me a Mike (210bhp) to find the time to do this!

Tim I reckon you and I are doing roughly the same job at the same time so also interested in this post - so far I have spent a £1000 on new 930 chain tensioners, ramps, split chains, cam pulley, smaller pulley, collars, timing case gaskets/hardware, exhaust gaskets, proper engine stand yolk and the tools to do it i.e. crowfoot wrench/cam socket etc plus a few other little bits incl rocker gover gaskets!
James

following the up coming top end rebuild class @ Mike Bainbridges there should be a large number of fully trained / skilled DDKers ready to mend all these damaged motors

58A - 71E wrote:Tim I reckon you and I are doing roughly the same job at the same time so also interested in this post - so far I have spent a £1000 on new 930 chain tensioners, ramps, split chains, cam pulley, smaller pulley, collars, timing case gaskets/hardware, exhaust gaskets, proper engine stand yolk and the tools to do it i.e. crowfoot wrench/cam socket etc plus a few other little bits incl rocker gover gaskets!
James

.... And you don't want to know how much for the complete body resto ! (See in the restoration thread on the backdated Targa)
The engine was only going to be cleaned !!
On days like yesterday I could have given up !! Its a good job my wife hates the idea of Woolies Westfalia !!
It would take very little to be wrong for the process to become VERY expensive !! The pelican parts rebuild wizard is very good though. That lot can soon add up, especially if you chuck in some racing headbolts and Big end bolts!!
I'm going to concentrate on putting the rest of the car back together for now I think, Do the engine at the end. Perhaps then I will have generated enough enthusiasm to to do a proper job on the engine !
Can I borrow the tools and the engine stand Please James ?
Cheers
Tim

Tim, you're coming to that class anyway so I'm sure Mike can give you some pointers

Mine came to just over a grand. That was the following:

New main bearings, big end bearings (with bolts I think).
Endless chains and new ramps.
Set of piston rings.
Set of exhaust valves.
Have valve guide inserts fitted (yes inserts into the inserts, worked well and no danger to the heads).
Full gaskets set and all seals.
Case sealer for joining the two halfs.
Flywheel bolts.
Clutch bolts.
HT lead set.
Full service kit, with about three or four extra oil filters.
Might have included a 'coil' as well, can't remember.

Anyway, a thousand pounds was enough to rejuvenate an O.K. ish engine, and TBH there's not much there that you'd want to leave off, the only possible exception being the exhaust valves. I only replaced them because one snapped in my hand (literally ).

I think the only thing that I regretted not doing at the time was upgrading the oil pump.

I already had a pair of good 930 tensioners, so didn't have to worry about them.

BTW, I got all of my stuff from Bert at Berlyn.

BTW BTW ( ) I used Dempsey's 911 Engine rebuild book: absolutely fantastic and well worth the investment if you've not got it. Knocks the spots off the Haynes manual .

Thanks for that Barry, Looks like the right sort of list.
I have the Dempsey book and am going on the MB top end course. I have also rebuilt a few engines.... so in for a penny ! etc..
Cheers
Tim

To put it in context Tim - my rebuild at Zentrum last year cost me just over 4K - including 1 new camshaft and probably most of the 'consumables' mentioned previously

sladey wrote:To put it in context Tim - my rebuild at Zentrum last year cost me just over 4K - including 1 new camshaft and probably most of the 'consumables' mentioned previously

Cheers Mark, sounds like a DIY job then
Tim

I believe it's about 40 hours of time to remove, strip and rebuild one of these engines. Would that be the general consensus?

Ian.

Tim, I hadn't built an engine for many years, and even then only british iron (A-series, TR 4 cylinder etc), but didn't find it too bad.

The only two tricky areas were

a) Joining the case halfs within the timescale needed before the sealant starts to set (it's not really fast, 1/2 hour or so, but you still need to be organised).

b) Timing the cams: again a bit tricky, and it's best if you make a dedictated mount for the dial test indicator to get accurate results. My only tip here would be, once the cams are timed, close the valve gaps to zero, and then give them another one and a half turns. On a T, the valves should still easily clear the pistons, so very gently wind the engine over. Obviously you then re-set the clearances to their correct values. All you've done is replicate a hot engine over-revving to make sure that nothing will touch under those circumstances.

My valves touched the pistons at this point, and it turned out that I had E pistons with S cams: a lethal combination, so I had to find different cams.

Bottom line, if you do this test, and they clear, at the very least you won't damage the engine if you've got the valve timing a little out. In your case, of course, you have the advantage of knowing your engine, so you shouldn't have to expect any really strange stuff. Then again you did find a drill in it I suppose .

Engines don't frighten me, Been there many times with Imp engines.
I take your point about being organised and Im sure having the engine on a stand will help. Thankfully someone I know has just bought a Yolk which hopefully I will be able to borrow.
Also, I'm off to the MBEngineering top end rebuild course soon. I'm very sure this will help loads.
I'm actually quite looking forward to doing this part of the job. It is something that I feel at home with.
Cheers All
Tim