DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

It is.

I have two types of Dinitrol undersealant - 445 and 447. When dry, 445 has a sandpapery look, and 447 is a bit smoother and gloopier.

Before I had discovered this, I painted 445 inside the front trunk, cabin and underside, and 447 in engine bay and wheel arches. I mixed my tub of microspheres with some latex primer to make home-brew Lizard Skin sound deadener, and put that all over the firewall and the backs of the rear seats before applying the 447.

The data sheet for 445 says it also acts as a sound insulator. Having applied both coatings, I've noticed a slight difference in the way the shell rings when tapped, but it still rings. Not a great success. I want the car to be pleasant to drive, so my plan now is to fit some Acoustic Polymeric Barrier (aka Dynamat, without the tradename).

I'm going to re-cover the trunk, cabin and underside in 447 because it looks more like the is the original factory coating used on the car. I'm really pleased with the way the 447 is going on.



The through-body ARB cover will be covered-up with sealant. I won't be using a through-the-body ARB.



This is 445 in the centre section, with 447 in the wheel arches. You can't really see it at this distance, but the textures are slightly different. 445 seems harder and stiffer. Both are very solid.





This is 445 coating the cabin. I'm not keen on it.



447 in the engine bay.

Looking really great Jamie - really inspiring.

How much 445 and 447 have you used so far [ for the car that is not the psychedelic trip ]?

Regards
Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Three of 447, and four of 445.

Those four cans of 445 did the main part of the underside, front trunk (up into behind the dash), roof, and the whole of the cabin.

The 447 has done four wheel arches and half the engine bay, but I need another go on the arches.

To coat a clean shell, I'd allow one can per wheel arch, plus three for the rest of the underside. As I mentioned earlier, I'd use 447 inside the trunk and cabin if I was doing this again. I think it's all essentially the same thing anyway, just with a different finish. One is hard, one is a bit rubbery. Both are super tough.

Don't spray in an enclosed space! Or do, perhaps. Whatever - just be aware of it

sladey wrote:One tip on the font wings I got from Jon Miller. Pour epoxy mastic into the double-skinned bit at the rear - fills the gap and hopefully prevents them going again

Good call. I was speaking to Nick Moss about something a while back and he asked if I had had the paint removed from the inside of the doors. He said the factory seal the seam at the bottom, and when the doors are dipped / baked & blasted, the seal is removed and the seams rust.

When I got my car, the doors were in perfect condition. When I got the shell and panels back from Enviro-Strip, I noticed that the sealer was now gone. I mentioned this to Barry whilst he had the car and suggested that I could pour epoxy down there to the same effect as the factory seam sealer.

So I did it this evening - poured couple of hundred millilitres into each door and rotated it to coat the seams on the sides and bottom. Then I did the same to the wings, as per Jon Miller's suggestion above, then the trunk and rear deck lids. Epoxy bloody everywhere.

I estimate I used about £30 of paint, most of which ended-up on the floor. A total mess. Still, £30 well spent if it stops the seams rusting for a while...

Pouring the epoxy mastic into the seams looks like a good idea and goo peace of mind.

Can you summarise what paint types / brands you have used?

Hi Andrew,

Three of 447, and four of 445.

are these the 1litre bottles or the 500ml ones?

Keep up the inspiring work.
Regards
Andrew

Litre bottles - the ones that screw into a Schutz-type underseal gun.

The Epoxy I've been using is Lechler, from paints4u.com (good price and good service).

My filler is Upol Fantastic, High-build is Upol 2K, guide coat is Mirka dry. No comment on whether any of it is any good as I haven't got there yet...

Love what this guys done in his 912 frunk http://youtu.be/cNfmcIHpsH8

This is the bit no-one ever posts pictures of. It takes lots of bog to get a 50-year old panel looking (and feeling) straight.

My front and rear decklids had seen some action in the battlefields of California. Thanks to Barry's superior metalworking skills, there aren't any big dents left, but there are still lots of small ones. If I had paid him for it, he would have got this panel looking like it was new. But 'it's only a 912', and a half-millimeter skim of good quality filler is where I decided to go.

This is Upol Fantastic filler, block-sanded with 36 and 60 grit paper. It is lovely filler to work with - I really enjoyed this process.

I wetted the decks down with thinners afterwards to check the panel flatness in the reflection. They look pretty good. Still some slack to be taken up with the high-build primer, though.





Couple of small dings here and there on the body itself. Amazingly, the doors appear to be perfectly flat (but we shall see for certain once the high-build is on)

I like Jamie's real world experiences. They are so informative and well written with lots of verve and enthusiasm without missing the details for the would be self- enthusiast(ic) first time restorer with a bit of determination. It gives encouragement for others to 'have a go' so thanks for the descriptions of both techniques and materials. Your results (god or bad) in your eyes and unique anecdotal prose make excellent cud to chew on. You always feel like you are at the coal face with Jamie and not just down the mine.

Regards
Mike

I agree with all that Mike

On the filler stage it took me a while to get it right - having got it wrong a few times. Here were my two main mistakes. I'm not saying you're doing either one Jamie, And in no way teaching you to suck eggs, just sharing it somewhere in case people are DIYing later

- I started attacking the filler with too fine a paper - that just preserves the bumps and misshapes you added with the filler and you never get it straight - Then you add more filler to fill in the new hollows, as you end up building up the panel too much. Instead start with coarse and shape the filler as opposed to smoothing it. Once the coarse shape is right you can go to smoothing.

- I did the whole guide coat thing but didn't sand it all off and ended up putting more filler on top of paint - you end up with problems later such as cracks in the paint, as the paint and filler dry at different rates, I believe. So no filler on top of paint

Couple of things from me.

Dont rely on the high build primer as a final filler stage, it is only really suitable for filling sanding marks (filler should be finished with a minimum of 320grit)

Place a paper towel between your hand and the panel to feel for imperfections you will be amazed at what you can feel that you couldn't with your bare hand.

The larger the sanding block you use the flatter your panel will be, preferably a long block with two handles (much like a wood plane)

If you can feel it, you can be damn sure you will see it when painted!

Cheers
Jon

DustyM wrote:
Place a paper towel between your hand and the panel to feel for imperfections you will be amazed at what you can feel that you couldn't with your bare hand.

Cheers
Jon

That's a useful piece of info - never heard of that before.

210bhp wrote:I like Jamie's real world experiences. They are so informative and well written with lots of verve and enthusiasm without missing the details for the would be self- enthusiast(ic) first time restorer with a bit of determination. It gives encouragement for others to 'have a go' so thanks for the descriptions of both techniques and materials. Your results (god or bad) in your eyes and unique anecdotal prose make excellent cud to chew on. You always feel like you are at the coal face with Jamie and not just down the mine.

Regards
Mike

Thanks Mike

sladey wrote:I agree with all that Mike

On the filler stage it took me a while to get it right - having got it wrong a few times. Here were my two main mistakes. I'm not saying you're doing either one Jamie, And in no way teaching you to suck eggs, just sharing it somewhere in case people are DIYing later

- I started attacking the filler with too fine a paper - that just preserves the bumps and misshapes you added with the filler and you never get it straight - Then you add more filler to fill in the new hollows, as you end up building up the panel too much. Instead start with coarse and shape the filler as opposed to smoothing it. Once the coarse shape is right you can go to smoothing.

- I did the whole guide coat thing but didn't sand it all off and ended up putting more filler on top of paint - you end up with problems later such as cracks in the paint, as the paint and filler dry at different rates, I believe. So no filler on top of paint

Thanks Mark. Understood re sucking eggs. Despite having worked around this sort of thing for a decade or so now, I've never done any bodywork. Great place to start, on an cheap old motor such as this...

As such, I'm only really writing all this down so that a) people might let me know if I'm doing it wrong, and b) in case anyone fancies doing this stuff themselves in the future, they can see what I did as a first-timer.

Yep, Barry Carter told me about only sanding filler with coarse grit paper. You need to cut into it, rather than ride over and 'polish' it. 40 grit is recommended. I had some part-used bits of 32 left over from refurbing the floor in our house. Near enough, I think.

I don't understand the second bit - did you put filler over the top coat?

DustyM wrote:Couple of things from me.

Dont rely on the high build primer as a final filler stage, it is only really suitable for filling sanding marks (filler should be finished with a minimum of 320grit)

Place a paper towel between your hand and the panel to feel for imperfections you will be amazed at what you can feel that you couldn't with your bare hand.

The larger the sanding block you use the flatter your panel will be, preferably a long block with two handles (much like a wood plane)

If you can feel it, you can be damn sure you will see it when painted!

Cheers
Jon

Cheers for this Jon.

What should I be using as a final filler stage? The Upol technical data sheet for the product I'm using (Product no. 2025) says it can be used as follows:

1. High Build Primer Filler for spot repairs. (use at 4:1)
2. Primer Surfacer for large areas. (use at 4:1:1 reducer)
3. A Non Sand (wet on wet) primer sealer. (use at 4:1:2 reducer)

I was planning to use it at 4:1 for initial build before block-sanding, then finish with a coat mixed as Primer Sealer (4:1:2).

I like the tip about the paper towel. I also heard this mentioned in one of Eastwood's videos by Kevin Tetz on YouTube. Although I still don't feel compelled to buy their products, I really like his videos - http://youtu.be/Cwb72qRT8hQ

Regarding sanding blocks, I ordered a 7-piece set of Dura-Blocks. They're pricey for a bunch of foam squares, but on my travels through Google I kept reading good things about them.

I've also been reading the Hokey-Ass Message Board (HAMB) over at JalopyJournal.com - lots of interesting paint stuff in there. When Americans do good paint, they really do good paint. They have nice cars on there, too.

Speaking of which, first seeing this car in bare metal was interesting - lots of dent repairs, but very little evidence of filler. Most of them had been pulled and dressed properly. Most people who have bare-metalled US-derived cars tend to find them heaped with filler - done back in a time when the cars were cheap and the repairs needed to be even cheaper. Anyway, quite nice. If only the guy that crafted the bodywork could have talked with the guy that butchered the engine...

Hi Jamie

If you fancy having a go at taking the dents out, this article explains it the best of all

http://www.proshaper.com/645/

The slapper is easily made, not everyone has a duesy spring lying about, mine is a bicycle front fork (the tapering kind), cut at the bridge at the top, which is then welded to a section of a leaf from an austin a30. Play about with the angle of leaf to fork to find what suits your swing best. If you are cutting up a bike, save the handlebar rubbers, these fit over the end of the fork to provide a decent handle.

You will need a shrink disc and a 9" grinder, dont bother with the 4.5 they are really dogshit except for a v.v. localised dent. Check shrink disc vids on youtube for an explanation, it really is as easy as it looks.

Ive been doing this today, and it is bloody satisfying. its works, and a day of doing it you will have it down (unless you hammer the **** out of it without watching the panel).

Hi Jamie,

I was talking about a guide coat - once you've got the shape right then spray any old dark paint on lightly - more of a splatter. You then sand through all that and you know you've covered every bit because the guide coat has gone. I didn't remove all the guide coat and then added some filler

Re sanding blocks - Neil recommended using some tube for the curves inside the wings - plastic plumbing pipes, inside of kitchen rolls - it allows you to follow the hope of the internal curve