356 Speedster Flat6 outlaw build

[greg356a]

Hi Garry,

Yes all works together really well. The first door panel turned out to be more of a design development. Once I have completed the second panel I might go back to the first and redo the hardboard back panel and the black vinyl. Houndstooth pockets system works fine

[greg356a]

Electrical issues
OK so had some electrical component failures. These were either second hand or expensive cheap quality non-oem. Very frustrating that these guys can get away with making crap parts and charge over the top prices, a switch that falls apart just ain't fit for purpose. Never mind the hours spent trying to trace the fault.

Looks like the regulator is not keeping the voltage down to around 12-14v but over 16v. The VW main light switch seems to have failed maybe as a result. Another VW switch has been fitted, this time with a front fog light option and the warning lights on the switch. So will be useful for future addition of period spots/ fogs.

The sidelights and front daytime running lights are working again.

When I moved the four switches from the dash to under the dash I somehow created a bypass circuit so when you switched off the ignition cct it did not stop the engine running even with the key out This is now fixed.

The 10 minute delay relay for the heated screen is working fine so should see demisting capabilities. Not sure how the IVA examiner will check if its a warm day. Maybe the screen temperature could be measured?

I have ordered some more switches as two of the four under dash switches have just fallen apart. I need to use these to pass IVA, I would have preferred to have used the period 911 switches I have which despite being 40 years old are still better quality.

Paperwork
Making an application for IVA has proven more troublesome than I thought, So first attempt I missed a serial number digit and the application got rejected. Second attempt the corresponding attached paperwork did not attach so rejected and another two weeks wasted. The third attempt the paper work was accepted for application However another two weeks later and there was another two faults, I quoted the torque not the max power figures and forgot the combined gross weight. I have emailed confirmation along with updated documents. Hopefully next week will be able to get the paperwork satisfactorily through I will say everyone at VOSA has been really helpful on the phone.

Learning from this I also ordered the two part forms for registering the car, which took two weeks to arrive. At least that will have saved some time when I can make the license registration application.

I have got all the paper work in a massive folder, neatly laid out in sections. I have tried to cover any obvious questions that may arise ie do the fuel pipes meet the right BS standard, are the bolts 8.8, I used a slightly smaller diameter bolts on the top seat belt mount so up grade the tensile strength on the bolt and have the paperwork to show its the same as a larger diameter bolt etc etc.

[Robneal]

Electrical issues
OK so had some electrical component failures. These were either second hand or expensive cheap quality non-oem. Very frustrating that these guys can get away with making crap parts and charge over the top prices, a switch that falls apart just ain't fit for purpose. Never mind the hours spent trying to trace the fault.

Looks like the regulator is not keeping the voltage down to around 12-14v but over 16v. The VW main light switch seems to have failed maybe as a result. Another VW switch has been fitted, this time with a front fog light option and the warning lights on the switch. So will be useful for future addition of period spots/ fogs.

The sidelights and front daytime running lights are working again.

When I moved the four switches from the dash to under the dash I somehow created a bypass circuit so when you switched off the ignition cct it did not stop the engine running even with the key out This is now fixed.

The 10 minute delay relay for the heated screen is working fine so should see demisting capabilities. Not sure how the IVA examiner will check if its a warm day. Maybe the screen temperature could be measured?

I have ordered some more switches as two of the four under dash switches have just fallen apart. I need to use these to pass IVA, I would have preferred to have used the period 911 switches I have which despite being 40 years old are still better quality.

Paperwork
Making an application for IVA has proven more troublesome than I thought, So first attempt I missed a serial number digit and the application got rejected. Second attempt the corresponding attached paperwork did not attach so rejected and another two weeks wasted. The third attempt the paper work was accepted for application However another two weeks later and there was another two faults, I quoted the torque not the max power figures and forgot the combined gross weight. I have emailed confirmation along with updated documents. Hopefully next week will be able to get the paperwork satisfactorily through I will say everyone at VOSA has been really helpful on the phone.

Learning from this I also ordered the two part forms for registering the car, which took two weeks to arrive. At least that will have saved some time when I can make the license registration application.

I have got all the paper work in a massive folder, neatly laid out in sections. I have tried to cover any obvious questions that may arise ie do the fuel pipes meet the right BS standard, are the bolts 8.8, I used a slightly smaller diameter bolts on the top seat belt mount so up grade the tensile strength on the bolt and have the paperwork to show its the same as a larger diameter bolt etc etc.

Wow...paperwork I have been putting to the back of my mind....but maybe I should start to put some time in on this now, please keep us up-to-date on this as I think there are quite a few of us that are behind you in our builds and understanding what the authorities like / don't like will be very helpful.
Hope it sails through IVA first time.....are you hoping for an age related plate?


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[Richardab1967]

Paperwork
Making an application for IVA has proven more troublesome than I thought, So first attempt I missed a serial number digit and the application got rejected. Second attempt the corresponding attached paperwork did not attach so rejected and another two weeks wasted. The third attempt the paper work was accepted for application However another two weeks later and there was another two faults, I quoted the torque not the max power figures and forgot the combined gross weight. I have emailed confirmation along with updated documents. Hopefully next week will be able to get the paperwork satisfactorily through I will say everyone at VOSA has been really helpful on the phone.

Learning from this I also ordered the two part forms for registering the car, which took two weeks to arrive. At least that will have saved some time when I can make the license registration application.

I have got all the paper work in a massive folder, neatly laid out in sections. I have tried to cover any obvious questions that may arise ie do the fuel pipes meet the right BS standard, are the bolts 8.8, I used a slightly smaller diameter bolts on the top seat belt mount so up grade the tensile strength on the bolt and have the paperwork to show its the same as a larger diameter bolt etc etc.

Yikes, yes like Rob said something i need to get on top of. A few questions:

The chassis ID is that one you had to stamp yourself (how/where did you do it) or the original chassis number?
How do you know the max hp (is the engine totally stock) or does it have to be dyno’d?
Ditto on weight, do you have to get it weighed somewhere beforehand?
How do you prove what bolts you used where, i have done the same with the top seat belt mount, did you just say you used m10 8.8 bolt or do you have a receipt and photo!?
What sort of ‘sections’ did you come up with for the build folder? Is there some sort of required structure for the document?

Gulp the paperwork sounds like a job in itself! Definately really grateful if you can keep us posted on the application.
Cheers
Richard

[greg356a]

Wow, so many questions. I will do my best but as mentioned its a little more challenging than I thought. My advice would be to check everything at least three times, and don't drink any beer before hand

Paperwork submitted;
a. IVA 1C application - available on GOV.com site. There is an additional explanatory document to help with completing
b. IVA 4 Amateur Declaration - You will need to prove that you made the car. If a professional was used then I think its a different set of forms and maybe requirements. Not sure how this differs from a friend helped me.
c. Engine dating document - complements of Bootsy. DDK letter saying that the 2.7 on engine number xxx was dated xxx. I also have "The red book for supporting confirmation"
d. IVA specification and build photos.
e. Porsche 911 receipt for engine/ gearbox/ new clutch, started motor/ Zenith carbs rebuild
f. Porsche 944 receipt for major components, brakes, suspension, steering, drive shafts + CV kits, Track rod ends. - On SORN
g. Speedster Clinic Receipt
e. VW Beetle used for pan - on SORN

Sections for spec and folder included:-
1. 30 pictures taken during build showing major stages/ chassis, mechanics body, electrical.
2. A description of the Vin Chassis number and how it was derived.
I copied/ converted how Porsche themselves created the numbers using the original 944 data
17 digits;
No Porsche 944 coding / Speedster coding
1 W - Germany / S Speedster Clinic
2 P - Porsche / P Speedster Clinic
3 0 - sports car / C Speedster Clinic
4 ZZZ - Europe / P - Porsche
5 ZZZ - Europe / Z - Europe
6 ZZZ - Europe / K - 1989, 2019
7 94 - 944 / N - Neckarsulm Audi factory (924, 944)
8 94 - 944 / 4 - 944
9 Z - Europe / 0 – Europe
10 K - 1989, 2019 / 4 - Serial number
11 N - Neckarsulm Audi factory (924, 944) / 7 - Serial number
12 4 - 944 / 5 - Serial number
13 04757 - Serial number / 7 - Serial number
14 04757 - Serial number / 2 - Year
15 04757 - Serial number / 0 - Year
16 04757 - Serial number / 1 - Year
17 04757 - Serial number / 8 - Year

3. Donor vehicles details and parts used,
Porsche 911 engine/ gearbox/ oil tank, Standard 2.7 engine so the max power and torque figures are readily available ie "The red Book"
Porsche 944[or major components, brakes, front/ rear suspension, steering rack/ column, rear drive shafts, electrical components ,
Beetle pan/ central spine.
4. Mechanical components data/ receipts including rubber hoses bought, AN fittings, all steel purchased/ sq/ rolled tube, flat plate, clutch slave and master cylinder data
5. Electrical - all electrical components and hopefully CE marked parts/ Highway panel 22 wiring kit, master discount/ relays/ switches/ feul pump
6. Specification of 2.7 engine power, gearbox,
7. Suspension New receipts OEM bearings, seals pipes, clips, fastenings
8. Brakes, New receipts OEM pads, pistons, bleed nipples, refurbished calipers, cooper-nickle pipes, VW brake connectors
9. wheels/ tyres evidence that with the same diameter, and gearbox pickups no speedo calibration is needed
10, Design Axle weights, Gross weight. I had the values for a Chesil speedster and calculated the additional weight of the engine gearbox etc

The large folder with sections similar to above included all the receipts for everything plus Harness spec, roll bar padding FIA spec, harness plate fittings, and all the CAD drawings I have completed for various designed products. I also have the individual pages from this site printed which has been an invaluable way to catch the build diary.

Bolts - standard engineering proof load table shows M10 8.8 as 3370kg and I used a M8 12.9 at 3550kg - which is better. This is from memory so might be wrong.

Age related plate - the major components for qualification for registration all come from the Porsche 944 S2 which is on a 1990 plate, so not really period. There are a lot of cheapish Northern Irish plates with 356 numbers so may grab one of those.

IVA test - I am trying to be realistic about the test and am looking at any failed points raised as an opportunity to make further improvements rather than it failed the test. With so much regulations a pass first time on a very custom project is a not easy. I still have a lot of unanswered questions which I won't know until the test.

Mdmax72 mentioned very early on to keep all the paperwork together, very good advice in hindsight. It was also something constructive to do over the winter nights.

The various Cobra and Lotus 7 build websites are a really good source of information. I found these brilliant research area when looking at the do's and don'ts plus what forms to use etc. Some of the big budget builds have some amazing story/ websites.

Hope I have not missed too much and that this helps.

[Richardab1967]

Wow, thankyou so much, will read and digest.

Cheers!

[porschewagen]

I’ve been told that someone quoted these weights from Chesil on their paperwork and they passed:

Axle 1 550Kg
Axle 2 400Kg
Total of 950Kg

Proved to be correct when IVA’d.

[Richardab1967]

I’ve been told that someone quoted these weights from Chesil on their paperwork and they passed:

Axle 1 550Kg
Axle 2 400Kg
Total of 950Kg

Proved to be correct when IVA’d.

Really, thats heavier than a steel beetle??

[Richardab1967]

Been looking through form IVA 1c, thanks Greg,

When it talks about weight, it says specifically the original vehicles 'laden' weight, ie a beetle in most cases. Then asks if you want the new design to have higher or lower laden weights to specify them and explain how its capable of higher weights.

I always thought a beetle unladen was around 820kg ish, looking at a late 60's manual it has permissible load 380kg and total laden weight as 1200kg, do you think the 950kg mentioned above could be the fully laden weight of a chesil speedster.

Wouldnt both before and after weights just be as per the beetle spec, ie its unladen weight might be less but its gross weight could still be 1200kg

[greg356a]

The Chesil speedster on a beetle chassis comes out at 410kg front and 615kg rear total 1025kg. I guess the only accurate way to know is to weigh the vehicle. I had planned to do this myself, but know just wanted to get it tested and registered ASAP

[Richardab1967]

The Chesil speedster on a beetle chassis comes out at 410kg front and 615kg rear total 1025kg. I guess the only accurate way to know is to weigh the vehicle. I had planned to do this myself, but know just wanted to get it tested and registered ASAP

Do you think that is max laden weight, I can't believe its that much heavier than a beetle, I assumed a grp speedster would be the same or a tad lighter. Seems some of the yanks have weighed theirs averaging around 1700-1800lbs so 770-815kg unladen https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/curb-weight

[Fuchs915]

That is a great summary for those of us running along behind you, thanks. One thing I am still not clear on is Q plate vs age related. I thought a shortened beetle chassis automatically put the car in Q plate territory, have I got this wrong? I have 2 Beetle chassis one (72) supplying the donor parts - engine, gearbox, steering, beam, etc - the other (70) because the 72 chassis is in pretty poor condition, so I’ll use the 70 chassis with the 72 parts. Would this mean I can apply for either a 70 or 72 year plate? Also going Speedster Clinic.
Thanks
Kevin


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[Richardab1967]

That is a great summary for those of us running along behind you, thanks. One thing I am still not clear on is Q plate vs age related. I thought a shortened beetle chassis automatically put the car in Q plate territory, have I got this wrong? I have 2 Beetle chassis one (72) supplying the donor parts - engine, gearbox, steering, beam, etc - the other (70) because the 72 chassis is in pretty poor condition, so I’ll use the 70 chassis with the 72 parts. Would this mean I can apply for either a 70 or 72 year plate? Also going Speedster Clinic.
Thanks
Kevin

My understanding is you can get an age related plate (perversely not your original age related plate) if you have two major components and an altered chassis from the original vehicle. Its found here
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles
I know this contradicts the general rule regarding radically altered vehicles where a chassis mod = Q. I cn't explain the exemption and the hotrod guru on all things DVLA says that the exemption shouldn't exist, but it seems to be there.

So in your case, the 72 parts on the 70 chassis would be the same parts, theres no way to identify a 72 beam or steering box over a 70 one, engine is the only thing with a clear number to define it. Assuming you have the V5 for the 70 you should be OK for an age related plate, but on your IVA declaration make sure you list that all the 'unidentifiable' parts came from the original 70....didn't they!

[greg356a]

I have had confirmation from VOSA that my IVA application has been accepted and I now have the pleasure of paying the bill and booking the test date. Hit a slight problem as the engine oil cooler as decided to start leaking, a new one is quite expensive.

Just to confirm I am going to use the Kit-converted vehicles route. A kit-converted vehicle ie old parts added to a new kit

Paperwork
form V627/1 - ‘Built up vehicle inspection report’
the vehicle registration certificate for the original vehicle Porsche 944 dated 1990
IVA test evidence
build plans/ photographs of the vehicle
Not sure if the local office need to actually see the car, unlikely I would have thought.

Criteria;
Age-related registration number using 2 original major parts along with:
a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle
The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Major components are defined as Chassis/Bodyshell, Axles (both), Transmission, Steering Assembly, Engine, Suspension (front and back).

Richardab1967 and Fuchs915 do you have a build thread on here? It would be really good to see some more builds, maybe gets some ideas.

[Richardab1967]

I keep promising myself to get a build thread up and running, but I barely have enough time to work on the car! I will do it though for sure.

So you are 'basing it' on the 944, in terms of original v5 and reg? I guess that makes sense then you can say you have two major components from that car. Do you have to have a certain percentage of 944 chassis to count though?

Richard