A sort of Barn(es) find

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Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

I hauled the contraption into the sunlight to inspect the progress.
Lovely.

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There is a repair in here. Where the bracket for the front corner of the rear bumper is welded onto the fender.
Still needs some work but not bad.

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Again, a good start.

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This is the bit that put a smile on my face.
I may even have convinced myself that the LHD side would be so much easier....

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And so, with a greta sense of accomplishment I returned the LO to it's cave and set off to the salt mines.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

Here are some pics of my passion pit.

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A visiting Porsche Dog. I was lucky she didn't decide to do a Labrador and eat some of my parts.

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Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

One of the things I haven't shared is the intended result of all this manual labour.
I have always loved the SWB cars. Particularly the ones with some anger in the back.
So the idea was always based around some kind of R spec, without really knowing much about the context of the R - what came before it and what came after it.

I'm not a huge fan of concourse cars. Well let me clarify; concourse cars don't really fit with my person. I admire those who have the patience and the attention to detail to bring a car back to all original level, but not for me.

Add to this my experiences (nay, my education) with a mate's 2.2S - the very same one Silver one featured in Total911 a while back.
The motor is utterly intoxicating: those top end revs (bites back of hand)
So a small capacity motor seemed to be the way to go.

What all this really means is that I fell in love with the form follows function approach of the early sports purpose and factory racing cars. To me, these were the first outlaws; a collection of sympathetic parts from different models put together to achieve a common purpose: to go far and to go fast.

I don't know enough about Porsche to have a decent argument with the originality crew, nor do I have the energy, but my uneducated view is thus: the most priceless and perhaps achingly desirable Porsches are essentially factory outlaws: the R, the T/R, the S/T, the 3.0RS, the 934, the 935, the SCRS. And lets not forget the customer cars that were ordered off the floor with access to the racing department parts list.

So the very essence of Porsche - that drove wins on Sundays and sales on Mondays - was the outlaw recipe. Do whatever you must to go fast and go far. To suggest that combining parts from different years or eras of Porsche is somehow not Porsche is bollocks. What is certainly not bollocks is doing whatever the hell you like with your car. I'm not sure any other performance car brand allows as much self-expression as Porsche does and I bloody love the fact that i can have a conversation, i can find common ground, with a guy or a girl that is entirely the opposite of me and my beliefs / choices / aesthetic, because we both love Porsche; even though they think a wide body 80s Targa in speed yellow with 19" BBS rims is cool and I think a narrow body with steelies is even cooler.

So the formula is thus:
(Function + financial reality) / skill + parts x obsession with 60s engineering = LO

Where the variables are as follows:

Function = go far and go fast, loudly

Financial reality = 2 kids and a bond + silly exchange rate

Skill = limited

Parts = 2.2E engine with original MFI
901 5 speed box (S/E ratios)
Lightweight flywheel
Original oil lines and tank with single front wing cooler
Race headers, ceramic coated white
LWB front suspension with alu callipers
Factory front anti roll bar
Standard bushes
Monoball top mounts
Bilstien shocks all round
Momo GT wheel
3 x 15x5.5 '67 date stamped Fuchs (i suspect I will have to find one more)
or Widened steelies.
R-style seats
Half cage tied into B pillars
Standard tank
Bare interior (as bare as my ears will allow)
Factory alu engine lid
FBG bumpers (S-stlye front)
FBG front fenders and hood
H-4 headlights
2 X Vintage Cibies with yellow lenses
A suitably wicked paint job.
RSR style bonnet and lid fasteners.
R-style hinges
Durant mirror
Original green dials x 5

The engine is an interesting one...

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Everything is there so that's a good sign
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Handsome, noble things aren't they...even in this state
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Something doesn't add up though: the heat exchangers looked like they are original and were completely rotten. The condition of the studs meant they hadn't come on or off in the last 10 years. But the pump drive belt in this pic looks to be in really good knick.

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Some modifications to the output flanges. Maybe there is an LSD lurking in there....
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Spare box:
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I'll try to get it running as is.
Aside from checking all the settings and cleaning it up, I really want to stay away from rebuilding it right now.
Aside from the knackered heat exchangers, the pump turns freely as does the engine so my hope is that it was taken out of a car for the sole reason of replacing with something with more oomph. A 2.7 most likely. Apparently in the late 70s and 80s here in SA, Porsche was doing it all the time; to S's and E's and anything that wasn't 2.7 or 3.0 litres. Many of these engines are still floating around. Which brings me to another part of the story.

In preparing to buy the cars I checked the register to ensure that the cars and the engines (2 x spare engines) were not registered as stolen or written-off or some such. The LO came back as having the same chassis as a tractor in a farming area. No surprise there as often the 6 digit vins were duplicated in error and assigned to tractors and farm implements and such. The engines all came back clean. However i didn't check the detail of the report.

Turns out that my engine (the 1970 2.2E) is still registered to its original matching numbers car. The tax is all paid up which would tend to suggest that it is not sitting under a load of crap in a shed somewhere. The present owner at some point had the ending swapped out but didn't feel the need to go through the palava of amending the register to reflect the new engine. All this presents a dilemma as far as the engine goes: do I try and reunite the car with its original engine? A matching numbers 2.2E Targa, no doubt in some lovely early 70s colour, is a rather naughty thought. Whatever is in the Targa now could go into the LO and the Targa would then become a matching numbers machine. Hmmm. I sincerely hope my wife doesn't see this thread.

Dear readers, what would you do? And please bear the 2nd variable in my outlaw formula in mind: financial reality....or as my Porsche Boyfriends call it LOFAOC, meaning Lack of Funds Aside of Course. Usually used in the following context: there is a set of 46 Webers for sale, I really think one of us should buy them...LOFAOC. Or: X is selling a Rubystone 964 RS from his private collection and he has asked if I am interested....LOFAOC
911hillclimber
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by 911hillclimber »

Propper restoration garage that!

Great progress and that dicky MIG looks to be up to the job.
Lots of people brazed pin hole damage and your car seems well brazed in many places?

I had to replace the entire bottom of both my doors and fit new Dansk door skins, just out when I did my car.
Evil fit and I should have spent more time on the door gaps but mine was destined to be a race car from the off, so I didn't fuss too much.

I used the hired spot welder to weld the outside floor strips to the floor which are still sound today 1/4 century on. £10 a weekend iirc with a big box of long deep arms and tips!

Keep it coming, great thread. Love a DIY project.

Those RHD dash tops are best kept for your pension plan....

As to the engine dilemma, do what will allow you to sleep worry-free and you have done the right thing.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
murph2309
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by murph2309 »

Loving this - thanks for sharing. Good skills. Great story-telling. Looking forward to updates.
1971 2.2 S Targa viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37364
1978 3.0 SC Coupe
1970 VW Type 2 viewtopic.php?f=43&t=62339&p
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willbrown
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by willbrown »

I would at least make enquiries to reunite the engine with its original chassis. Must be a win win. You get a few extra $$$ for the engine to fund your hot motor, Targa owner increases the value of his/her car. What's not to like?
'72 2.4S Targa
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

911hillclimber wrote:Propper restoration garage that!

Great progress and that dicky MIG looks to be up to the job.
Lots of people brazed pin hole damage and your car seems well brazed in many places?

I had to replace the entire bottom of both my doors and fit new Dansk door skins, just out when I did my car.
Evil fit and I should have spent more time on the door gaps but mine was destined to be a race car from the off, so I didn't fuss too much.

I used the hired spot welder to weld the outside floor strips to the floor which are still sound today 1/4 century on. £10 a weekend iirc with a big box of long deep arms and tips!

Keep it coming, great thread. Love a DIY project.

Those RHD dash tops are best kept for your pension plan....

As to the engine dilemma, do what will allow you to sleep worry-free and you have done the right thing.
The garage is taking on a life of its own.
Would be a lovely photographic project: Porsche Garages of The World.

I don't want to trash the little MIG, it did a sterling job in spite of the operator.
They still make spares but getting to RSA from the UK proved difficult: the internet, whist making much of our lives easier, can make the simple things very complicated.
That spot welder sounds like a win.
The thought of not having to grind down plug welds is very very appealing.

Good advice on the engine.
Considering that Porsche is the very reason i sleep badly: dreams and plans and what ifs...
I do think it is my/our duty to ensure that what few cars there are left are returned to working order for the next generation of nutters.
Perhaps this is the reason I don't support a certain chap here in SA who is butchering perfectly good cars to make early tributes to sell overseas. We have a very rich Porsche history here in SA with an ever dwindling supply of good cars: as Neill Young said, once they're gone, they don't ever come back.

But then this wouldn't be the first time i over estimate my own importance!
murph2309
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by murph2309 »

willbrown wrote:I would at least make enquiries to reunite the engine with its original chassis. Must be a win win. You get a few extra $$$ for the engine to fund your hot motor, Targa owner increases the value of his/her car. What's not to like?
Yeah - suppose I should have been flying the targa flag on that one too. Oops.
Last edited by murph2309 on Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1971 2.2 S Targa viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37364
1978 3.0 SC Coupe
1970 VW Type 2 viewtopic.php?f=43&t=62339&p
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

murph2309 wrote:Loving this - thanks for sharing. Good skills. Great story-telling. Looking forward to updates.
Thanks for the kind words. Appreciate it.
Hopefully by the end my skills will be as good as the story-telling.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

willbrown wrote:I would at least make enquiries to reunite the engine with its original chassis. Must be a win win. You get a few extra $$$ for the engine to fund your hot motor, Targa owner increases the value of his/her car. What's not to like?
I see that you might be a little biased! But good advice. My worry is not that the owner says 'great, I'll swap engines and give you some cash', my worry is that owner says 'I'll sell you the car...'
Not sure I could bring myself to part with the SC....or tell the wife that I have just swapped a perfectly sorted SC for another scrap heap and she won't see me for 4 years' worth of weekends.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

murph2309 wrote:
willbrown wrote:I would at least make enquiries to reunite the engine with its original chassis. Must be a win win. You get a few extra $$$ for the engine to fund your hot motor, Targa owner increases the value of his/her car. What's not to like?
Yeah - suppose I should have been flying the targa flag on that one too. Oops.
2.2S Targa and a SC. You're giving me ideas....
There is always a Pointer on the wrong side of a door, and there is always a Porsche project in the garage.....
Gary71
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Gary71 »

Just caught up with this thread, great work for a first time metal worker with a compromised MIG!
Keep it coming.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

Gary71 wrote:Just caught up with this thread, great work for a first time metal worker with a compromised MIG!
Keep it coming.
Cheers Gary.
Roger that.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

Thanks all for the encouragement.
I have spent a few years devouring the stories and pictures and wisdom on this forum.
To be honest, its been pretty one way traffic.
So in addition to my subs, this rambling restoration circus of one is I hope some settlement of the debt I owe, or at least the first instalment of a long term payment plan.

Despite the often over-looked support of our wives or significant others, this living in a cave saving flat beetles is a mostly solitary addiction. Geographically speaking we are scattered lot, but this forum makes us neighbours in a one make town.
And that's pretty damn cool.
Parkview911
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find

Post by Parkview911 »

I did an inventory the other night, of the the tools I deem to be essential.
The realisation is that the most limiting implement in this kind of work is the fleshy one with thumbs!

Clamps. Can never have enough.
Stronghand is a great brand.
The little chaps which seemed to have been absent from the team photograph are the butt-weld clamps.
As I mentioned before, they are essential for this kind of work.
I'm not sure how I ever welded without them.

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A home made post-dolly and a few strips of copper.
The post-dolly is very good at helping the untrained fleshy implement with thumbs ruin a door skin.
However, when used with patience and a deft touch it can be very useful.
The copper strips come in very handy for butt-welding. You can buy some rather fancy clamps that have copper pads so that you don't have to invent interesting ways to clamp the copper to the back of a weld.

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Dollies.
I managed to find some in a 2nd hand shop.
They don't make them like they used to, unless you go with a good brand and the nature of the product means shipping becomes rather expensive.
Being a bit of a magpie helps, the piece of cast steel in the bottom of the pic is from a green-wood stove. If the shape fits, use it.

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Hammers, not really possible to have too many in my opinion.
Probably because they end up spread around the workshop so once you have bent yourself into position to attack some hard-to-reach repair you realise you left your hammer on the other side of the car.

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This extraordinarily special piece of kit:

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I-Beam off cut bought as scrap.
Every time i have to bend or cut or shape something it proves useful.
Especially with a plate welded to one surface and some round bar welded to the edges.

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These buggers are really just for humour....for the spectator and not the welder.
Unless you are using them on a flat surface they tend to play silly buggers with gravity.
They hold just long enough for said welder to be about to weld and then they let go, taking the patch and a few clamps with them. If you're lucky they don't land on your head.
Still, before I label them as generally useless they are every good at attracting and collecting steel fillings, seemingly from the entire surrounding suburb.

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Chisels.
These are very useful and work in the same way as the hammers: spread them around the work area so that there is always one within reach.

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And finally, the one tool I should have bought years ago.
The shrinker / stretcher.
This has made making those little 'just a quick patch' jobs so much easier.
Window corners, rain channels, fender lips, etc etc.
They are not expensive and make themselves indispensable very quickly.
If you are serious then getting a deep throat shrinker is the right way forward (the weight and the descriptor on the packaging will explain the look on the courier's face).

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So those are my most precious helpers.
Between the parts you can order from Dansk or RD and the patches you can make with these tools, there is very little that cannot be done. A bead roller would be very handy, as would a few template curves cut out of 10mm steel.
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