DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

A couple of the guys seemed to suggest it was on the other thread Phil - is that not the case?

It is matching numbers from what I saw and the info I have, what have you heard differently Phil?

I was talking to one of the Bonhams staff, who told me it was not original engine

I realise now that MT confirmed it was original

I did have a good look at the car, as everyone has suggested, chassis is scrap. There is no base to start. The lack of a bulkhead will also mean the stamped chassis number is missing...

... but the guys found the correct secret number on the dashboard. It's clear that some of you have a downer on this car/project, but it's probably worth getting the facts right, no?

Did anyone see the aluminum paint tag, and what the original colour was? Since the knee VIN exists, and perhaps the crayon Vin exists, this is enough to establish the identity of the car. I'm assuming the aluminum manufacturers tag is also missing? What about the transmission?

Paint tag exists, and is in much better condition than the rest of the car. I know it shows the chassis number and the paint code - although I can't remember what the paint code was

I think my mate took a photo, but I'll have to check - I was too busy getting the kneepad off!

Transmission is in one of the crates, although at the bottom so difficult to get it out. I couldn't get to where the number is, but it looks to be the correct case.

Mick

The law seems to state that monocoque cars cannot legally be reshelled and retain their identity but cars with a separate chassis can have a new body fitted. One of the big historic car groups was lobbying to have this changed a while back.

I think it's clear with this car: It cannot be saved. Since you cannot buy a new shell from Porsche you will have to use the shell from another car and whatever you do there will be more of this second car in the finished product, so the correct identity would be that of the donor shell, not LYY911D.

Talk of 'saving' the car as if it's doing the classic car world a favour is nonsense, since to 'save' this car you have to sacrifice another, so you're saving nothing, in fact you're destroying what would be a saveable car to create a ringer just for the sake of having a more valuable end product.

There are lots of grey areas in old cars, I read an interesting article about there being two E Types (CUT7 being one) that are both accepted as being the original car because both have an equal number of original parts in them. If, say, the bulkhead was saveable, or the roof, or something significant (anything!) from the original shell you might have a case for LYY911D, like CUT7, but I think DVLA would, if in possession of all the facts, want any new car built around what can be seen in these pictures registered as the donor shell. You can't decide the new car is LYY911D just because you want to and its rarer and more valuable.

I suspect that in reality if you wanted to use the engine, box and four-square-inches of metal from one car, the shell from another, doors from another, suspension from another, interior from another, etc, etc, it should probably legally have an IVA and a Q plate.

True, in theory, but once all the welding is done it's a bit tricky to spot where each bit came from.

An old debate that will never reach a conclusion that everyone agrees on.

Mick, thanks for that. I applaud your dedication getting the knee pad off to find the chassis # there. If you can get the photo of the paint badge, you will make my day. I do hope the new owner shows up here.

Regarding rebodies, I know of one car that was wrecked early on, and got a new replacement body from Porsche. Later, another car was wrecked, and all the very low mile parts were transferred to the car; so now the car only retains it's plate and title. Much later the original body is found, resurrected, and put on the road with a kit car plate. The current owner of the re-body has acquired the original engine and running gear, and wants to acquire the original body as well.

All of that is only because there are large monies at stake or to be taken?

I think way back it was said the owner of this auction car bought it as a retirement project, so maybe he is in for the love of it.
Also said was that he was asked to get in touch on DDK. Let's hope he does and we have a wonderful thread to follow whichever direction he takes to resurrect this car.

Hi I am the John who bought LYY 911D. My DDK account has just been activated.

I have been reading the commentary with interest. First I would like to thank all the folks (you know who you are) who advised, informed, responded, showed up, helped etc before during and after the auction. I REALLY appreciate all the feedback. Yes I will start a restoration thread, and I expect this to be a long process as I plan to get plenty of advice how best to restore LYY 911D

Some background: I got interested in Porsche 911's in the mid 1960's when a teenager visiting the doctors. He owned a Jag and got car magazines which ended up in the waiting room and we seemed to be there frequently so I read the article in Autocar about this 911S among others. That was when the obsession started. Ten years later I spotted a 911 in a used car forecourt. I had to stop and test drive it. It was rough, coughing and spluttering and on returning to the dealership spewing oil from the front of the engine onto the forecourt. "Looks like a ruptured oil cooler" I said and proceeded to negotiate the price down from £1000 to £500 (which I didnt have). My lovely wife supported my desire to buy the car so we went to see the bank maneger (it was the days when they still existed) and to my surprise got a £500 loan.

It turned out that they must have filled the header tank without the engine running so the oil overflowed because their was no problem. Josh Sadler at Autofarm sorted the tuning and other than needing new heater boxes it was a delightful car. I was really hooked. But kids came and we had to sell but 25 years later my wife having suffered 25 years of regrets gave in for my 50th and I bought a 1999 GT3 - the nearest I could get to the feel of my old 911. Since then I have had GT3's a GT2 a Turbo and now a GT3RS but still miss that lightness and immediacy of my original 911S. So a couple of years ago I started looking. I had no intention of doing a restoration and indecision and procrastination took me to Friday 21st June and the flag for lot 301 arrived in the mail. It brought back all the memories and it was a little bit of history that is important to me.

So for starters
1) I am doing this for me to drive and enjoy for as long as I can envisage
2) Not being made of money - I will need to keep working maybe a bit longer than I thought to do this project
3) I want to do it right, make it as close to original as possible
4) Please dont hesitate to advise me (I may or may not take it) - the more information, input and help the better chance I have of making the best choices
5) I am not in this for a quick buck so a) I will be completely open with what I do and b) I wont rush it

The car arrived today and it seems that it was dismantled in the early 1980's and it seems the removed engine, trim, seats etc were stored better than the body, so the worst part is the body shell.

The first question being discussed is... on the restoration thread

Welcome to DDK. That's quite an entrance given some of the comments above
I look forward to following your journey with the car

Excellent news, welcome, and I will watch with all the others as the adventure unfolds.
Lots of pictures please!

£30k????!!!!

There is not a smilie mad enough.


But best of luck to you...at least you're in the right place for advice.

John, please tell us more about your first 911S, it's a chance that somebody on this board has it now.

andy