DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Simple stuff
Always take the best car ur money can get
When the end of the world comes
The dross will sink but pro rata the quality
Will sell !

Very few cars ever turn out to be serious investments, but they are unique in that they are one of the few assets you can use and enjoy without too much impact on value. I am not looking to make a killing on my 2.2s, but I do expect it to cost me a lot less in the long term than a modern equivalent (it will easily manage that if it retains half its value, let alone rises). in the meantime I shall use it regularly so it acquires its second layer of patina over the next 30 years (or as long as petrol lasts).

964RS wrote:

scalino65 wrote:

speedy wrote:do people see the bubble bursting in the near future.Looking at aston martins the db6 that used to be around 60k 3or 4 years ago,your now looking at least double that.Whos paying that is it new money from abroad or people here looking for somewhere to put their money.Is there much more scope for early 911s to rise?I remember thinking a 911S at 50k was crazy money.Does anyone see them reaching 100k in the next couple of years?

I was at the RM auction a few weeks back and theyhad two DB6s that went for silly money. The message seemed to be "oi, fabulously rich people, you need to park some cash in something called a classic car to sit alongside your other assets in anticipation of "everything" going horribly worng, diversification will help preserve your cash". Which of course is all very logical and all that but what was rather sad was that it wasnt about selling cars to people who loved them,lusted after them, had pictures of them on their wall as small boys,etc. The answer to "which one shall I buy?" seemed to be given as "how much do you need to put into a diverse asset class and we'll find one at that "price"/"cost"/"value" for you".
The bit I really dont get is what happens when these new owners/investors start to incur the huge maintenance costs that go alongside keeping a lamborghini miura in fine fettle, or if they put the rod through the block of a ferrari 250 lusso,etc. I think that would take the shine off your "diverse asset class" pretty quickly. Are they just bought to look at? to stick in storage?

Typical of recession buying and asset diversification.

Look at price of Art over last 5 years.

Sadly it puts most things out of reach of the normal enthusiast though.

Until the bubble bursts of course, which it will at some point to some degree.

Clever thing is knowing when to cash in.

I feel some of the uber rich are buying at prices that have already flown currently and they typically will hang on to long in the long run if they are buying for pure investment.

It is true though, money comes to those with money.

Some of my friends would consider the typical DDKer uber rich! However, and I'm not saying Jason suggested this, but there seems to be an underlying theme that those with the money to buy nice cars don't deserve to have them!

Don't think 'deserve' comes into it.

If you have the money you can buy what you want.

If you don't then you can but dream until you make it possible (if it's ever possible).

Way of the world....

[there seems to be an underlying theme that those with the money to buy nice cars don't deserve to have them![/quote]

Just to be clear, I wasnt suggesting for a moment that such purchases werent "deserved".

To explain further, we were the guests of a private client law firm at the auction and one of the partners gave a little talk about asset class diversification,etc. Thats the bit that I found strange- that the objects of our affections were simply a recommended addition to clients' portfolio rather than an object of longing and desire, which perhaps sadly is the way I feel about old 911s. I was questioning the logic of this view not the validity of anyone's right to buy what they like and do what they like with it. My own experience of owning and driving old cars is that they are hugely interesting and entertaining but they can cost considerably more to look after than hanging an equivalently expensive painting on your wall (an asset which could be bought for similar purposes if all you cared about was "diversifying your portfolio"). Perhaps I have been unlucky with my cars. However, I can imagine how expensive it would be to rebuild a Lusso engine and it crossed my mind whilst listening to the talk being given that of course no such "risk factors" were being discussed and instead the focus was purely on this business of diversification of investment. Having once been in the position with a broken car of thinking "why on earth did I buy this?" I wondered how someone (or indeed the "diversification" market if it even really exists) might react if they had a similar experience of dropping 10% plus of its cost on a repair having only bought the car because they had been advised that they "should" rather than because they really wanted the pleasure of having it.

When I read about this whole "alternative asset" investment thing the assets involved are things like wine, art, old musical instruments,watches,etc. As I said, maybe I've just been unlucky with the sorts of bills I've had to pay over the years but I just see old cars as having greater potential maintenance costs then the other things on that list . The temptation to drink the wine would of course be another potential problem.
Perhaps the chap talking about "diversification" was really just talking about good old man maths.

I guess that is when the bubble may burst.

When these new 'investors' look to sell (and too many of them at the same time), they will find the enthusiast bid is a lot lower than where they were filled.

Also, if the market does start to creak, u are not going to rush in as u think it will go lower and everyone goes to the sidelines until the market finds a correct floor.

72911E wrote:I guess that is when the bubble may burst.

When these new 'investors' look to sell (and too many of them at the same time), they will find the enthusiast bid is a lot lower than where they were filled.

Also, if the market does start to creak, u are not going to rush in as u think it will go lower and everyone goes to the sidelines until the market finds a correct floor.

Derek - never mind all this auld guff - get down the road and buy this one!!

http://www.landmarkcars.co.uk/stock/Por ... 7/6481.htm


regards
Sean

hahah....thanks Sean! Can only imagine the asking price.

That place on the Hogarth roundabout reminds me of something similar that popped up in the late 80s/early 90s. It was based round Kingscross way/Caledonian Road and called nogaliaclassic or autoclassic or classicautonostalgia or something like that. Basicaly a huge place full of top end classics. Can someone put me out of my misery and remind me what it was called...and what happened to it?
ta

If you have the money and the car is viewed purely as an investment then they don't cost a huge amount to look after and keep in working order. £2,500 will buy you managed storage for a year in a demhumidified environment with the car rolled regularly and run on a rolling road every two months.

A boring way to own a car to an enthusiast but if you think of it as a work of art and you have enough money then you don't need man maths to make it work.

Ian.

sdelan wrote:
http://www.landmarkcars.co.uk/stock/Por ... 7/6481.htm


regards
Sean

I'd love to have a whole weekend just to test drive their entire stock - what a superb mix of interesting cars!

Interesting investment but yet another which throws up some questions from a 'specialist'.

I have never seen a glacier blue RS in the flesh.

There were only 16 in total so a rare colour and only 5 in the first 500. There were none delivered in that colour in feb 73 and if it were it wouldn't be one of the first 500. Only one was delivered to France ( the ad. admittedly does not say 'delivered' to France) and it had a powered antennae and a Becker Mexico radio and driving lights so unlikely to be that car (all these could have been changed).
Of the other four cars in the first 500 in glacier they all had antennae or sunroofs.

Not one of the first 500?
Not restored to original spec?
Not originally Glacier blue?
Not delivered to France?
Delivered earlier or later than Feb 73?
All of the above?

Before you make your 'investment' questions need to be asked.

Regards
Mike

scalino65 wrote:That place on the Hogarth roundabout reminds me of something similar that popped up in the late 80s/early 90s. It was based round Kingscross way/Caledonian Road and called nogaliaclassic or autoclassic or classicautonostalgia or something like that. Basicaly a huge place full of top end classics. Can someone put me out of my misery and remind me what it was called...and what happened to it?
ta

It was called Autodrome , and I spent far too much time dreaming there

Landmark is literally 5 mins from me ...... might go and have a look and ask some questions. Looks very pretty!

richkaz wrote:

scalino65 wrote:That place on the Hogarth roundabout reminds me of something similar that popped up in the late 80s/early 90s. It was based round Kingscross way/Caledonian Road and called nogaliaclassic or autoclassic or classicautonostalgia or something like that. Basicaly a huge place full of top end classics. Can someone put me out of my misery and remind me what it was called...and what happened to it?
ta

It was called Autodrome , and I spent far too much time dreaming there

I bought an Alfa Spider from them - I think he was called Tom Hardiment ( or something like that) he promised to have the exhaust fixed in time for me coming down from Yorkshire to collect it as I was heading straight over to Europe for a three month tour - of course when I turned up to collect it he "hadn't had time to do it" I was booked on a ferry that day - ended up driving round Europe with a blowing exhaust and getting it fixed in Italy !

They used to have some incredible cars there - I remember turning up one day and he was having a massive argument with a customer as one of the staff had parked the guys Ferrari 355 with the gearbox wedged against the kerb carrying the full weight of the car !