New MOT legislation and more...

[amallagh]

I feel I could find I have a car without a registration at the end of all this, so passionate about the subject.

If the DVLA drop the 8 point system for CLASSIC cars then this is potentially very good for me.

I still think the best outcome for classics is if modified then it's an MoT for ever.

My feelings exactly. Lets pray that common sense prevails

[KS]

You have to remember that the DfT and DVLA/DVSA are two different bodies responsible for different areas of legislation. They have frequently contradicted each other as there is no 'corporate' answer right now.

A vehicle which is modified outside the 8-point rule will need to undergo BIVA (or its equivalent at the time) – that has been the case since 1988 and the advent of the Q-plate.

I can't see why anyone thinks they will drop the 8-point ruling for classic cars. That has never been suggested, unless it can be proved mods were carried out before 1988.

I'm not going to add anything more to this as there is no point. Those who might or will be affected need to either wait to see what happens or carry out their own detailed investigations – and that means not relying on letters posted on Facebook.

I truly hope that nothing comes of all this BUT remember, basically all that's being done is to implement regulations that have been in place for 30 years, but not enforced very rigidly.

[911hillclimber]

The harder I have tried to get an answer or some indication of the Guideline Doc release date, the shorter the answers get from the DfT (via my MP), the DVLA and then back to the DfT who have failed to respond for 3 weeks, so I consider that dead.
I have joined the Federation involved, and this will be my next line of contact and to put my case to them as an example of the modified issue, as opposed to MoT exemption.

The press have gone quiet. I expect this is due to a lack of response to their questions, thus no headlines.

I am not bothered about MoT exemption. If my car is exempt then so be it, it will still be maintained 'to pass'.

If that was Keith's last post on this subject, then I thank him for his efforts to keep feet on the ground and to pass his take on all the inputs we have given on this thread.
Graham.

Oddly, there was an issue in motor sport circles esp hill climb cars last year because the MSA imposed a rule that was older than the 8 point rule suddenly (about roll protection systems) having ignored their rule for decades.
I nearly had a bad experience with my 1978 race car as a result, so here I am again, being chased by a forgotten rule that has just been applied now after decades

When I advised the DVLA in early 1992 of the RHD conversion NOTHING was said at all. If rules are not applied by an official (legally binding) body, are they indeed rules ?
I was not made aware of any '8 point rule' and this was 3 years after they were issued.

Back to sit down and wait for May 2018.

[911hillclimber]

As a member of the Federation, my magazine arrived today.
Here is the page about the 'Modified/ MoT issue dear to some of the hearts in DDK.

I have put it here in total, there is no page 2 etc. Sorry it is so small, DDK re-sized my picture
I hope you all find it interesting.

My interpretation is a positive one.

[KS]

Do note, though, that is only in relation to VHIs needing MOTs or not. The matter of cars abiding by the 8-point rule as far as registration (BIVA, IVA etc) is concerned is, of course, an entirely separate issue. It is important not to confuse the two.

The confusion is easy because the original consultation papers suggested the 8-point ruling was going to be 'borrowed' for use in establishing whether the VHI needed an MOT or not. That idea was abandoned in favour of the 15 per cent increase in power to weight ratio and self-certification but, sadly, too many people took it to mean that the whole 8-point rule deal had been thrown out across the board – which, of course, it wasn't.

Oops. I wasn't going to write any more. I'll stop now.

[911hillclimber]

No, do not stop posting. You must know we all want your input.
It is important to see this affair from all sides of 'interpretation and understanding', I have rosy glasses on, others do not so we read different things into the same page...

I posted this as this is the report from the people who are talking to the DfT/DVLA (presumably both) about these issues.
Maybe we will all get a nice Xmas pressie in the form of the Guidelines.

[911hillclimber]

I emailed the DfT after the letter to my MP (now Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson) which was passed back to me.

I did that on the 12 Nov and thought I had been ignored.

Not so.
Today I have been sent an email in response to my email specifically about the 8 point rule and BIVA as a consequence (etc)
The following (in full) has come from David Pope of the DfT.

Thursday 7 Dec 2017
Thank you for your email of the 12 Nov to Jesse Norman. I have been asked to reply.
You refer to our proposed guidelines for defining a VHI
You are correct in surmising that we have dropped our proposal to use the DVLA 8 point rule. (my high lighting)
Since the Minister wrote to Gavin Williamson, we have decided not to use the definition of a 15% increase in the power to weight ratio. This was after considering representations that an increase like this could only be proved by a dynamometer test, which might cost a vehicle owner £300.

We are now working on another definition, in discussion with the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs and other stakeholders.

We plan to issue the revised guidance on our web site before the end of the year (my underlining)

David Pope.

[KS]

Interesting. Keep up the good work!

[911hillclimber]

I think there are loads of people writing in now some email addresses are coming to light.
I hope this surge of questions have made some think again
I am not clear of Iva but now a good distance away with the 8 point threat gone
Maybe if your car is modified you will have to tax and MoT

I don't see why a modified classic should pay tax and a standard one does not though!

3 weeks to wait.

[KS]

From what I understand, you'd still be tax exempt – just an MOT.

[dragonfly]

Thanks for all the info and research

[911hillclimber]

I do hope you are right Keith, a result from all this would be that anything modified on a classic vehicle means you have to get an MoT every year.
This is a winner in many ways, and if so Selfishly nothing will change forme.
I think though it will be tougher than that for me and my 911.....

I hope these latest government communications will inform those involved, but the Fat Lady has not sat down yet!

[rhd racer]

Thanks Graham, greatly appreciated

[amallagh]

I'll miss this thread when its gone. It has the ability to turn me from happy to sad and back to happy again in just a few minutes. I'm beginning to feel rather schizophrenic

[KS]

I'll try not to make you too sad!

Please do realise, though, that it has been law for the last 38 years that a car modified outside the 8-point ruling needs to be tested – it's just that the law hasn't been widely applied. Will anyone get caught out? Depends on you, really. What has changed recently is the fact is that now the law has come under scrutiny and cars (rods) have been picked on and, in some cases, V5s revoked.

The MOT aspect is a separate issue.