8000 rpm/300 bhp 3.2 rebuild

[911hillclimber]

Thought I would post this little sketch of the plan layout of this car and the Clewett system
Any comments about proximity of anything would be welcome.
I also show a pic of the car without fibre glass body.

I am about to send this to Electromotive and Clewett asking for orientation distances and the various questions asked today on here.

I suspect these to be ignored as they have before.

[Jonny Hart]

The layout is very sensible. You have the XDI and VR far away from the HT and starter. They will ask where your HT leads run but clearly they are well away from any susceptible wires and the unit itself.

If a customer has a problem, I want to know the root cause so we can make our products better. No problems are ever ‘weird’, there is ALWAYS an engineering reason.

Example from last week. Customer having trouble fitting our high output alternator in a ‘67. After reviewing photos, it’s a sand cast housing and guess what? It’s different to the magnesium casting in the area of the alternator mounts. Every day is a school day but that is how products improve, not by blaming the customer!

[AndrewSlater]

Hi Graham,

sorry to hear about your problems with the Clewett system aswell as your dealings with Electromotive.
As a chartered Electrical engineer and having spent a large part of my career fittings electronics into hostile vehicle environments, I do have to agree with Jonny that the system doesn't seem fit for purpose.

Hopefully Electromotive or Clewett step up to help you protect your investment and solve the problem.

As for your diagram, it might help to clarify where the starter motor is getting it's feed from.
I think your are showing the ignition switch feed to the starter solenoid, but have omitted the starter feed.

In order to comply with their first point you posted previously 'Ensure the power for the XDi is isolated from the starter by the battery, allowing it to act as a filter for the noise.' - I assume they are expecting to see the starter feed coming directly from the battery positive which may not be clear in your diagram.

Other than that it all looks sensible to me.

Good luck
Andrew

[Gary71]

This is a very poor situation. Shocking customer service.

Time to cut losses and change systems. Even if it costs double you risk missing a season and a whole load of stress by flogging this dead horse.

[911hillclimber]

I've driven the ecu by an independent battery @ 12.7 volts while cranking the engine several times, so negating the effect of voltage drop etc.
Made no difference.
Everything we have tried comes to nothing, yet several outside of this forum have said the sensor is working well thanks to Rob and Chris' efforts with the scope.

I have bombarded the USA companies to find a fix and return the ecu.
They say it could , not will, be fixed with a Hall sensor, but the sensor does not fit the XDi!
They don't even know their own products.

I am on the same page as Gary above.
Cut loose swear at them and use what I can and buy a £1100 real ecu from DTA that has a connection to NASA and the Starship Enterprise, but will interface well and Drive twin plugs.
They are only 1 hour away.

What a load of bollox this has been.

I expect to be ignored

Got to move on, I'm a hillclimber and want to win my class for the 5th time!

They cannot deal with anything called a problem, no resolve, no customer focus.

I'm now on Pelican to see if anyone on there can help.

[Bruce M]

Perhaps getting loud on pelican will get a reaction?

[911hillclimber]

I've asked for tech experience on Pelican, the Clewett XDi must be well used in the USA?
I think both companies will now ignore me, this is too hard for them to cope with, but I'll give it till the end of next week.
If negative, try to get my money back, and go to DTA.

[911hillclimber]

Clewett has just sent an email.
He says it was the early XDi that could not take a hall sensor, mine is the latest spec which can.

It now sits in the hands of Electromotive and Clewett to assure me this will work, or they will send the ecu back with the hall sensor.
I won't get a reply until next week.

On a positive note, the test engineer at Electro called Clewett to discuss the result and to ask questions on the installation.
Still have the risk of extra costs, shipping and duty.
Doubt Electro will supply and ship for free.

I have already asked for the cost to send it all back.
May still be time to cut free and sod them.

[911hillclimber]

And another from Clewett:

>
> 1
>
> What is the peak-to-peak voltage of the VR sensor at engine crank speed? I don't know if there is an exact answer, for this voltage. I know that if the sensor is too close it can be hard to start. A gap to .035-.040 works well. sometimes .045 is better. Selby would need to answer four voltage questions..
>
> 2
>
> Noise will give mis-fires, not total failure. What condition gives failure (ie solid green light, no flashing on engine cranking, solid red after?) This is not a true statement. As a safety feature for the engine, if the ECU sees an irregularity in the crank signal, it will shut down until there is a reliable signal. The solid red light after cranking is a system of an irregular crank signal.
>
> You state the XDi is trouble-free, thus the sensor is faulty or something else, please detail what else is/could be wrong.
>
> 3 On occasion we will have someone with an issue such as yours. Most of the time the sensor is set too close to the wheel. The next most common problem is RMI/EFI from the starter motor. This is usually corrected by a 1k-1.5k resister installed between the white and black wires on the crank sensor. This will often filter the noise down to a tolerable level. This can cause the engine to cut out at high RPM, If it does, the resister needs to be a higher value. If the resister does not work, a Hall sensor is the next logical step. That said a noisy starter can still be a problem. It's not the norm, but on my own car, the factory starter started going bad. It made the car hard to start until it would not start at all. This was on an EFI system and when connected to the laptop I could see what was happening. A new starter was installed and fired right up.
>
> At what voltage does the XDi fail? The XDI will work down to about 9-9.5 volt range but the spark is weak. When voltage is this low the supply voltage is often very noisey. I have run it on a separate battery to the starter battery, 12.7 volts
>
> 4
>
> What is the acceptable Noise to signal ratio at cranking speed? I don't know.
>
> 5
>
> Can you send me a video of my XDi under test showing the light? Selby has your ECU he could.
>
>
> For now, I will wait for your collective replies to these 3 emails. I will not let go until I have this resolved.

[chris68]

Sorry to read the woeful reply you received from Clewett. None of the responses seem logical or even honest imo. I don't understand why they don't just come clean and do their level best to help you out. Their denials and subterfuge kind of makes you suspect they're hiding something. Maybe they're trying to keep the lid on a deluge of returned units?? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it!

Keep making a loud noise Graham. They're behaving like a shower of w**kers and everyone needs to witness it.

[RobFrost]

Shame they haven't replied about cranking speed or sensor voltage output. If it's working okay as they say, I'd like to eliminate the question of whether you need to get closer to 400 or 500 rpm, and generate more like 10v signal from the sensor.

If I wasn't fixing my 996 door today I'd check the cranking speed of my 3.2.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[911hillclimber]

Been marshaling at Curborough today, Club's Autotest meeting.
Magic skills everywhere.
Lots of time to ponder about the ignition.

I'll wait to hear from Stephanie, the General Manager at Electromotive.
She will refuse my request for a free return of my XDi and new Hall sensor I'm sure. Might get a surprise....

She will, I expect, quote me for the Hall sensor and return of my 'trouble-free' XDi unit, so I expect a charge of £300 to get back what is mine and a possible solution.

This will be the situation which i will take, last chance.
If this fails I will ask for my money back for a product that is not suitable.
They will: Ignore me, or at best, say it is all my fault.

I think my claim is against Clewett, who will react the same.
I have no faith in either, so really best away from all the Bo!!ocks and go DTA. and try to claim via VISA.

[911hillclimber]

The world of 'ECU's' is hard to navigate!

Looking at Plan B to the USA system I might get back from Virginia, USA.
Plan is to keep all the peripheral parts that came from the USA and are wired-in on the engine/chassis.
That is Coil packs (2 blocks of 3)
Crank trigger wheel (60 -2)
Crank Sensor, VR or Hall but 1/2" dia as I have a machined mounting.

This leaves a replacement for the USA XDi unit.

The replacement must fire twin plugs/cylinder for my flat 6 engine
Minimum spec, ignition 'mapping/control' only needed.
And a drive for a rev counter and a shift light please.

Needs to be splash proof as it is in the semi open
Easy to pin-up to the coils etc.
Available preferably ex-stock and a pin kit is available for the pins/connectors.

I don't want to spend a £1,000,000.

Options:
DTA T8,
DTA 80? (secondhand)
Maybe an Emerald?
OMEX?

What others that aren't Micky Mouse and a rolling road guy can map?

[sladey]

I’ve been happy with my Canems and found the owner David good to deal with

[911hillclimber]

Electro sh!t have emailed to advise they will charge me $149 for anew hall sensor that. Might fix it. This has been discounted $16 because they are such nice people.
Postage will cost $180 so about £280 to get it all back.
Oh, and I have to arrange the FedEx shipping labels for them.

Just how I do that I don't know.

I find it hard to express my feelings over these two companies, Clewett and Electromotive.

Do
I gamble and get it all back.
If it fails then at least I have it all and can seek money back via VISA.

Emerald are making good noises, so are Megasquirt but all more money, but could get to my first race either way.
Just galls me.