964 C2 - Rolling Resto

[Dammit]

Fascinated to see how you get on with this one - I (like many others, I suspect) quite seriously considered making an offer for it.

The other cat-C 964 that cropped up recently has a bent chassis, so this one seems to be a much better starting point.

[jevvy]

I wondered who would end up buying that car, sounds like it might have found the correct owner

Might be a controversial view but I would be tempted suggest NOT tearing into the engine right away. Yes I know it has a few 'issues' but sounds like it runs and drives and you can have some fun in it driving around while you decide on a longer term POA and start collecting some parts to execute said plan. Your long term plan having driven more miles in the car might be different to what you think it is now - rebuilding these engines is expensive in parts alone so you really just want to do it once if you can.

Also the orig colour on a 964 really does look nice, my vote would be to return to factory paint:

[rhd racer]

Fascinated to see how you get on with this one - I (like many others, I suspect) quite seriously considered making an offer for it.

The other cat-C 964 that cropped up recently has a bent chassis, so this one seems to be a much better starting point.

Interesting. Do you mean the dark metallic blue one on Car and Classic I mentioned earlier? Fortunately I received a chassis certificate with the history file and it was remarketed by a well respected specialist after repair, so I took positives from that.

Jevvy - I did consider that but the leaks are so bad from that spot where the flange has broken off that running out of oil and doing more damage, or an engine fire are a bit of a risk. The other issue is my budget for the less important stuff (paint / interior) will be very much dictated by what I have left to spend. They can get pushed out quite easily and I can run it as is, but the mechanical side needs to be put right so I can enjoy the car.

Thanks for the pic of the midnight blue one

[904GTS]

Wayne I think I saw some 964 stainless heat exchangers in my shed recently, let me know if they are possibly of use and I will check them out.

Barrie

[rhd racer]

Yes please Barrie that would be fantastic.

No rush, I won't need them for a month or two.

Thanks very much
Cheers
Wayne

[Boydyrs]

I have to agree with Jevvy. I would drain all fluids, attempt better repair in situ. The fill with mineral 10/40 or 20/50 oil and watch it carefully. Probably fit the silvers and do a basic geo then enjoy. I’ve had many air cool cars and find most have semi/fully synthetic oil anD it finds its way out much easier. Worth a try for the cost.

[Dammit]

Fascinated to see how you get on with this one - I (like many others, I suspect) quite seriously considered making an offer for it.

The other cat-C 964 that cropped up recently has a bent chassis, so this one seems to be a much better starting point.

Interesting. Do you mean the dark metallic blue one on Car and Classic I mentioned earlier? Fortunately I received a chassis certificate with the history file and it was remarketed by a well respected specialist after repair, so I took positives from that.

Jevvy - I did consider that but the leaks are so bad from that spot where the flange has broken off that running out of oil and doing more damage, or an engine fire are a bit of a risk. The other issue is my budget for the less important stuff (paint / interior) will be very much dictated by what I have left to spend. They can get pushed out quite easily and I can run it as is, but the mechanical side needs to be put right so I can enjoy the car.

Thanks for the pic of the midnight blue one

I didn't see it on C&C, but it was on 911Uk for a while, then the owner posted it on eBay at 30k or best offer.

One of the PH members had had a full PPI and it found the chassis to be 10mm out of square.

Might not be the same car as the one you are thinking of - this one had buckets, cup wheel, looked very nice until you found out it was a banana.

[wadsworthi]

Great new project Wayne, I am sure you will have loads of fun with it once it arrives! Not tempted with a P2 entry for 2020 then?

See you soon.

Regards

Ian

[rhd racer]

I have to agree with Jevvy. I would drain all fluids, attempt better repair in situ. The fill with mineral 10/40 or 20/50 oil and watch it carefully. Probably fit the silvers and do a basic geo then enjoy. I’ve had many air cool cars and find most have semi/fully synthetic oil anD it finds its way out much easier. Worth a try for the cost.

Thanks - I will keep an open mind when I go and see it in a couple of weeks.

Ha, no Ian, this is strictly for pleasure, otherwise I would be ripping out seats and caging it, and back to two x2 seaters! Hope the family are well and see you at Anglesey if not before.

Cheers
Wayne

[rhd racer]

So a few weeks have passed and I can now update the 'Has Wayne lost his shirt on the cheapest 964 in the country' or 'Do long distance relationships with cars work?' thread. Plus my wife is out giving me access to the best laptop, which helps.

Well first up I have now seen the car that I spent part of my daughter's inheritance on. I picked up some wheels for Angus from Paul Howells when in the area on business a few weeks ago, that he in turn had very kindly picked up for me from the RS day at Oulton (thanks Paul). Gus needed them for a track day in his Boxster in late March, so I dropped them down to him about 10 days ago. He had got the car out of the storage unit, given it a wash off and I drove it into the workshop for my first look at it under the glare of fluorescent lights...

Jumping in, everything was familiar from my season in David Hilton's 73 E, everything in roughly the same place so felt reassuringly familiar and old. I mean classic. You know what I mean.

Flat battery aside (turns out it is 6m old but had been left with the bonnet up for 3 weeks by mistake), turned over and ran like a charm with a deep exhaust note that I have only ever heard from the outside. Gearshift smooth, clutch light, almost feeling modern. But then the headlights appear (it was 8pm pre clock change) down the long wing tops and you feel like you are in a classic 911. Great.

I didn't have my camera (I can't get photos off my phone, long story, think conservative employer limitations) so I don't have any snaps, but genuinely in every area it was better than I expected. The paint is in good nick overall, and it looks well in that colour. It is undoubtedly tired everywhere, but shows just enough promise in every area to give the overall impression it is salvageable, and more importantly worth saving. It was clear under the lights that the damage back in the day was to the rear o/s quarter - there is a very slight mis-shape over the rear arch, but panels are available so it can be addressed in time. A cursory look and you wouldn't even see it.

Oh, and it leaks. Think Exon Valdeez. It was wet everywhere and leaving a trail that could not be ignored. We agreed that it needed to come apart and sorting out, because adding oil in the same quantities as fuel is cost prohibitive, and the misfire it developed when warm pointed at a broken head stud. With this in mind, I planned a meeting with a client in Peterborough last Friday (one week later) so I was half way there at the end of the working week and Gus offered up accommodation so I could stay until we knew what we were dealing with.....

[rhd racer]

So, the week passed and the anticipation of getting to finally do something on the car was frankly a bit of a distraction. My client meeting went well though and I managed to head an hour south instead of an hour north and arrive at Gus's workshop at just after 5. He and Ryan had already been on the car for an hour or so, it was on the ramps, oil drained, driveshafts undone and various bits disconnected. I got changed into my overalls, and an hour or so later we had this...






No surprises so far, except the main fuel line (and return) down the middle of the car between tank and engine bay are very, very rusty. Not worth taking a risk with those then, so will replace. £450 or so I wasn't expecting, but ignoring it and losing the car is a false economy.

[rhd racer]

So it is here that things started looking up.



What looked like a new clutch. (see how wet the heat exchanger is below)

And so it was..barely used. That's £500 odd saved from the original fag-packet budget that will pay for an RS flywheel....



So back to the strip down



Then another unexpected positive....





New valves. Things are looking up, this is another job that was in the original plan.

[hot66]

loving these pics as dont get to see a 964 motor strip down on here

[rhd racer]

loving these pics as dont get to see a 964 motor strip down on here

Well you are in the right place James, so put on a brew!

So, at this point all the evidence pointed to a recent top end rebuild and clutch. This corroborated with what I was told by the PO, who had not done the work himself but had been informed by the original seller last year that 2 top ends had been done during the car's life.

But there was some odd things too. Some of the bolts weren't correct (in fact a lot weren't), the oil sender was a genuine unit but leaking like a sieve. The rocker cover gaskets did not look like they had been replaced, and there was a lifetime of oil around them on the cam carriers. Some fresh, some burned on like syrup. Why wasn't it all cleaned up when stripped and rebuilt? The collapsible drain tubes also suggested a top end only job...



And then there were the case nuts - why would you replace all the visible hardware on the bottom end if only disturbing the top?

[rhd racer]

So at this point, you could justifiably be thinking that I was worrying about nothing, should have just bought myself an oil spill kit and get on and drive it!!

Then I took the rocker covers off and;



Re-united in this pic on the bench, the rocker through bolt and nut on number 5 had parted ways citing artistic differences and were just set in the cam carrier waiting for the rocker to fall out and join them!

Now this does happen occasionally, I had it happen on the 914 about 10 years ago on number 6, and when the rocker stops rocking it sounds like you have done your motor. On that occasion, Barrie (904GTS) diagnosed it by phone on hearing the engine run, and I fixed it in an afternoon.

Anyone familiar with the 964 knows it is a little more complicated - you have an exhaust and/or heater ducting running all around the engine, heat shields and all sorts, and o be honest I might have got 100 miles, maybe 500, but it would have failed and then rather than pull the covers I would have likely decided to pull the motor and remedy all the other issues too.

At this point, as you can imagine, I was rather pleased to have ratified the decision, plus having caught something before it caused any damage.