911 2.2E restoration

Mick Cliff · Post by **Mick Cliff** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:48 pm

That's a beautiful job, well done Barry
Now come on John, let's be having it finished - no excuses now!

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:55 pm

Mick Cliff wrote:That's a beautiful job, well done Barry
Now come on John, let's be having it finished - no excuses now!

I have my paint brush at the ready but first I have a 2 week stay at the health farm to endure

murph2309 · Post by **murph2309** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:23 pm

Having spoken to Jury (Chris) at Spa, I now understand you could do it with a paintbrush and make it look ace! (If you don't mind a shedload of sanding in between)

jury · Post by **jury** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:44 pm

johnM wrote: I have a 2 week stay at the health farm to endure

Tough old life John!!

Shell looks great, look forward to seeing it being put back together

Chris

58A - 71E · Post by **58A - 71E** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:19 pm

Nice one chaps

Really enjoying following this, great thread

but enough of all that - John, the clock's ticking, ready for DDK European tour?

gav p · Post by **gav p** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:08 pm

Very impressive work barry, although you seem to have aged a few years

Some great photos after the panel fitting there - these shells really are works of art, from any angle.

Can't wait to see the car in Light Ivory, John

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:50 pm

Pure craftsmanship Barry,good for another 40 years,(wonder what people will think of an 80 year old Porsche)

Hope to see it in the flesh someday John.
Regards,

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:54 pm

Nurburg in September is the goal..... Not sure it's going to happen it will be a push at best we will have too see how well the paint goes. Alan Drayson is currently blasting and etch primering the shell. I am offshore untill the 23rd so will not be able to get the car into paint before that. Could be 6 to 8 weeks in paint so it only leaves a few weeks to put the car back together. Hopefully should have most things ready to put back on. Alan is refurbing lots of the shiny stuff like the brake calipers and door frames etc. I hope to have most things sorted but I am sure something will bite me. Got to have a goal so wish me luck.
Kind regards

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:57 pm

johnM wrote: Could be 6 to 8 weeks in paint.

John, looks like a lot of long days,(and nights),ahead to meet your deadline

6 to 8 weeks in paint seems a long time.
Mikes been telling me you've been helping out on my car from time to time,so if there's anything I can do to help you out in return,just let me know.
Regards,

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:04 pm

brembo wrote:
johnM wrote: Could be 6 to 8 weeks in paint.
John, looks like a lot of long days,(and nights),ahead to meet your deadline 6 to 8 weeks in paint seems a long time.
Mikes been telling me you've been helping out on my car from time to time,so if there's anything I can do to help you out in return,just let me know.
Regards,

Thats very kind of you

I think their must be lots of hidden work in painting a shell. I would assume that most of the work is in prep and putting the colour on only accounts for a small portion of the hours.

Kind Regards

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:12 pm

Very much so: 150-200 hours for a good job, and probably only (I'd guess) 15-25 of those are actually holding a gun.

If someone said it was ten hours of prep for an hour of painting I wouldn't be surprised, and if it was more like 20-30, I still wouldn't be

.

To a large degree, the panels are the same. Usually they go on and off many times, get modified, trial fitted with their neighbours, get fettled etc etc. Again, the actual welding on is a tiny part of the job.

IanM · Post by **IanM** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:51 am

From seeing these pictures, what I like about Barry's work is that when replacing rear outer wings, he does it right upto the guttering line. Some other restorers particularly the factory don't do that, they cut a line about 1 or 2 inches below the guttering to make the job easier. Here is a video:

http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesan ... tabindex=2

Is it difficult to work around the guttering or are they just too lazy?

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:34 am

No, it's a real swine

.

I did end up using some lead on one side this time, although that doesn't happen often.

The problem is that when the quarters arrive, all you have is a very crude / soft right angle which is meant to be the first part part of the gutter. You then have to tighten it up into something better defined. Next you form the next right angle (which develops into the top fold) from scratch. This has to be formed at the right height to fit around the underlying structure.

Once this angle is formed, you then have to trim the remaining excess to leave just enough metal to fold over the roof panel gutter, but not so much as the metal bottoms out in the gutter base. Go wrong by much more than 1-1.5mm and you're probably heading for trouble.

Finally, you need to fold over the top angle to clench over the roof gutter, and get it aligned with the original, and so that when you run your hand over the join, you don't feel a huge change in profile, angle or thickness.

It's a real sod. The trouble is, the alternative is to join below the gutter, and this makes a real mess of things: you then have a join that can't be tapped up (other than trying to get it close with a stud puller). If you try to go in by joining across the rear quarter light area, it's very hard to keep the quarter-light aperture the correct shape and profile.

So, there's no easy way on this. If you don't mind some filler, then the leave-the-gutter-alone method does work, but frankly it just feels a bit of a bodge when you're doing it. Against that, if that gutter goes wrong, it's a time-sucking business to sort it.

I'm in the process of developing some more tooling (I've already got a dedicated gutter-dolly that I made up, which helps with the initial forming), which should replicate (hopefully) the factory method, albeit on a small scale.

One way or another, one of the harder parts of a 911 build.

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:14 pm

When i did my rear wings I took the gutter right to the top of the B post welded and then made a forked mild steel swager about 6mm thick and slowly drifted the gutter over (like clenching a door skin over) and brazed the B post joint, added a smear of lead to that joint and where the pesky gutter joins the rear window to engine panel which needed welding anyway to seal the joint off.

All gas welded....and quickly quenched, but no distortion.

Do you seal or fill the cavity Barry to the rear of the rear window (C post?)

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:50 pm

Hi Graham,

I don't no, as I don't usually get involved with anything painty / sealy.