DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Barry, great work so far. 1 question - what are you going to do re headlights? I ask as will your solution have any bearing on the shape of the front wings, bearing in mind that you need space in front of the wheels to fit them? Also if you're going to have plexiglass covers (ala a 904 or an Etype for example) do you need to design the wings around off the shelf units or are you going to have covers made to fit the wings?

Just something else to think about

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I have to say it's fascinating watching the commentary evolve and seeing all the great ideas and input.

Period (ish) Avis adjusters are on their way, so the front ride height will be adjustable up to 4 inches. This should give us enough adjustment to fine tune the ride height without affecting the suspension travel and torsion stiffness. The rear has period Armstrong adjustable shocks on it already so we can tweak things there although the ride height is pretty spot on there already.

There's one way of determining if there's interference Barry, just put a couple of sacks of cement in the front and drive it... not sure how long the paper would last though

I'll hold off with my own views on what needs to change a little longer as it's great to get others views and inspiration. Keep the photos and photoshopped tweaks coming

Hey great work Barry and Steve!
I really like the way it's looking and basically don't think it needs any major changes.


Here's my opinion on Barry's questions.

Q: Do we think that the front arches could go deeper into the bonnet?
A: No I don't think thats needed, it's not a massive Le Mans racer, I think keeping it as it is gives it more of a small sports car look.

Q: Do we think that the front should have more of a curve to it (if you were looking from overhead it was more banana curve than cucumber curve ( ))?
Or even more curve, but don't forget if we do that, the bonnet is getting longer and longer, which means the clamshell gets less and less practical / attractive.
A: Nope, no more curve, it would just look silly. Giving it a longer nose is a different thing, that I support.

Q: What do we think of the height of the front bodywork generally?
A: I think it looks great, no changes needed.

Q: What do we think of the front arch / wing height?
A: Looks great.

Q: What do we think of the actual front wheel arch lip height compared to the tyre? My own thought it that when you look at racing cars of the period, the tyre is nearer the outer edge of the wing, but the wing clears higher over the top of the tyre. I.e when you look down from above, would a period car have the tyre nearly showing, and would you be able to put a finger or a hand in between the top of the tyre and the arch lip?
A: I think everything looks good, it's a tad lower from wheel arch lip to tire than an old racer would but I think that's just reflecting the time it's beeing buildt in and works great with the rest of the car.

I did play with the front veiw image a bit to see if a few details would make the
bonnet look less massive, I don't think there is a problem with the "big" bonnet but had a go anyway.
I think when all the bits get on the car the slightly big looking bonnet will look normal in racecar terms.
I also made the front arches curve in towards the bonnet to see if it would help,
I think it's helping minimizing the bonnet but not sure if it makes everything look to modern.
I think the front tip edge (on bonnet) is to sharp so I tried to soften the curve and I think that slightly better.
Anyway it gives some ideas to play with.

cooor. liking some of that. thanks for the input Macauley, I hope we're doing your drawings justice!

had a spare 10 minutes after lunch....so for what its worth, just a slight tweak to what I posted earlier




Chris

My thoughts are more practical I'm afraid.

Where are you getting the lights? will they not dictate how the wing sits?

The will be expensive to make up and why bother if you can buy them off the shelf.




duetto




Ferrari




arbarth



Nice nose?



Or other details like door handles etc. but might be a bit early.

I've always liked these



Many supercars have humble parts from 'lesser' cars Mclaren wing mirrors are some everyday saloon Morris Marina or something.

Thanks for the latest: it's interesting looking at the above pics of other cars. If you stripped out the details, they'd all look quite broad in the bonnet I suppose.

To answer the queries about the lights. Steve has got some standard units coming. These come with their own adjusting screws, buckets etc. I've made a judgement as to where these will come on the car, and indeed the 'headlight' painted in refects this. As for the covers, the plan is that these will follow the flow of the body, and therefore I'll initially make these up in ally, ready for the plastic covers to be made from.

Steve's Dad has rather a lot of knowledge of the plastics industry I gather, so we're confident that we can find a method of coming up with something bespoke.

Chris: no can see on your latest . Duff link?

Macaulay: great to hear from you, and thank you for the latest rendering. I must admit, I hadn't thought of a bonnet vent feature. Certainly is a good way of applying some bonnet illusion .

I like Chris (Jury)'s under-line treatment - a la 904 - not so keen on his expanse of bonnet and straight-on headlamps

I like Macauley's bonnet but feel you go with the centre line OR the 911-ish vent lines - not both; and if you went with the vent-lines then IMHO they should be wider apart.

From the angles shown there's definitely a touch of the ferrari 599's about it

Front vents etc....

Bit '50's? Useful pic though . Note pointy nose and clearance over front wheels, just out of interest.

I did have the very simple (it is me, after all ) thought of simply measuring across the existing front wings, and then say, some 911 ones, the 550 ones Steve's got in F/Glass plus some others.

If they are all quite a bit wider than the existing, I know I've gone a bit adrift (allowing for differences of scale of course), on the other hand, if they generally are in the ballpark, then perhaps I'd relax on the issue a bit.

I did spot Marcus's Arbath project on the 'Other Classic' thread the other day: I ought to mail him as well. Tiddly car, and O.K. the shape is somewhat different, but if, say, even these are wider, then I know there's room for change.

Of course all of this is subject to Steve's current thoughts, of which I don't know where he's at in this regard at the moment. I think he's rightly keeping quiet to encourage as many views and ideas as possible, without trying to sway any direction yet.

louis356 wrote:

The best handle, also as used on a DB4GTZ Maybe a bit Italian, but spot on for keeping it light, elegant and simple.

Oh definitely, I love that and forgot to comment on it earlier.

I don't know what Steve's got in mind, but my view is that something of this nature, scaled to fit the car would be lovely .

Whilst original handles might be a bit hard to locate they used a modern version on the Fiat Barchetta.

That style of handle was also used on the Abarth-Simcas -

It's probably much to early to be discussing fine details like door handles but I envisaged something similar to either the original Lotus Elite (which I think came from the Hillman Husky van):



or the Alfa GTA



Here are a few front shots of contemporary 'low volume' sports/racers :

Lotus Elite Climax:



Lotus 23 - I think this demonstrates that a lack of any (superfluous) adornments definitely works:



Abarth Simca:

Andy that Abarth Simca is simple stunning!

Just to make the point that I think Maculay's technically brilliant rendition begins to make the car look a tad modern,
and looking at Jury's and louis356's pictures I suspect it's the sharpness of the lines that are doing it. It's especially
noticeable in the lip/edge from the front top panel as it suddenly drops to the number plate air intake panel, perhaps
it should be more rounded here to keep in period. IMHO