DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Well I'll definitely come out and say it Graham. Do you really want to send a load of 'look at me' emails to the powers that be? I can't imagine that will be helpful to you or us in general. 'Hello Mr Govt, please can you look at all our unroadworthy cars and tell us what to do about them?' doesn't seem to me to be particularly circumspect approach. Keeping under the radar feels much better to me.

Apols if I've got the wrong end of the stick!

Graham

911hillclimber wrote:We do have to wait to see what come out of the initial mayhem across the classic car, the customised car the race car worlds and others I'm sure.

I am not too clear, but I believe there will be a guideline paper for us Classic modified guys in November 17.
I have emailed again to the authority about this, second email, first a week ago un answered. I hope this shows they are drowning in email questions.

They have invited questions to : roadworthinesstesting@dft.gsi.gov.uk

In the mean time, those who feel affected should try to understand the implications of the new system and even consider removing the mods to get 'out' of this body shell issue.
Converting to LHD would be possible for me, but it makes imho a safe car a dangerous car. That is not my welding skills but the use of a LHD car in a RHD country.

The IVA have a special test system for LHD car being imported today.

Ironically, you may have to modify your classic to meet the demands for testing modified cars....clear Government thinking at it best.

gridgway wrote:Well (just my view), you'd be insane to do a project to try and make your car iva compliant on the basis of a what might be. Unless you wanted to anyway.

We know two things as far as I can see.

1 the MoT change where you'll have to declare your car's fitness for being MoT exempt
2 DVLA/DVSA poo in the mega-modded hot rod world with some real-world examples.

However, the connection between the two that all (or even a subset of) modded historics will have their V5s revoked and need an IVA test is conjecture.

Why would you not wait and see?

Graham

I wasn't really saying that I am going to go out today and buy a load of bolt covers and flappy wing mirrors, more that with the guidance coming out in November if I need to act (and it looks like Graham and I will, as the wheel arch thing will probably go away) I plan it in to my winter alongside getting the next phase of Boxster development done.

Otherwise I will run the risk of losing next summer driving it, and possibly have my personal reg confiscated. I am not going to 2nd guess things today, just factoring the possibility into my plans and budget.

well if I were you, I'd put my reg on retention, that's a no brainer!

You say "if I need to act (and it looks like Graham and I will", bear with me, but take me through the logic of that conclusion.

I think that's very much the area of conjecture.

Graham

rhd racer wrote: I wasn't really saying that I am going to go out today and buy a load of bolt covers and flappy wing mirrors, more that with the guidance coming out in November if I need to act (and it looks like Graham and I will, as the wheel arch thing will probably go away) I plan it in to my winter alongside getting the next phase of Boxster development done.

Otherwise I will run the risk of losing next summer driving it, and possibly have my personal reg confiscated. I am not going to 2nd guess things today, just factoring the possibility into my plans and budget.

Left to right conversion Graham - appears to be the only dead cert in the current version as a substantial chassis mod......

Yes, wait and see is the obvious thing right now – the big concern in the street rod world is where people are midway through a build and are now seeking advice on what they will need to do to guarantee an IVA pass. For us lot, waiting is the obvious thing to do, unless you are currently building a car which 'might' break the 8-point rule.

911hillclimber - if LHD in the UK is dangerous, you must have been terrified when you took your RHD Boxster to Europe. Like Andy, I've owned many LHD cars (not one of my Porsches and only about 50 per cent of my VWs have been RHD) and find it no problem at all. It's easy to adapt your driving style, hanging back from vehicles on country roads, etc.

I'll continue to pass on any news I get, if people wish.

Any news will be good

Here’s a bit from the FBHVC

http://fbhvc.co.uk/about-us/news/_artic ... -criteria/

sisu wrote:On the bright side the IVA doesn't look that scary most of this is clear and not ambiguous as the 8 point aspect is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... get-a-pass

Those guidelines are pretty clear.
May bring up some additional concerns for some of us though.
EG, no brake bias adjuster allowed: "Braking ratios between axles mustn’t be manually adjustable."
Didn't some cars come fitted with this as standard? (914?)

gridgway wrote:Well I'll definitely come out and say it Graham. Do you really want to send a load of 'look at me' emails to the powers that be? I can't imagine that will be helpful to you or us in general. 'Hello Mr Govt, please can you look at all our unroadworthy cars and tell us what to do about them?' doesn't seem to me to be particularly circumspect approach. Keeping under the radar feels much better to me.

Unfortunately this has been the attitude for the last 20-30 years since the SVA/IVA came in. Hoping to duck under the radar was working fine as there was no real mechanism for 'the Man' to find you, and in reality many people didn't even know they were falling foul.

The difference with this new proposal is that they MAY be asking you to declare all your mods, which throws the liability back on you. It really does depend how it comes out in the wash, if they ask you to declare mods ONLY when you try and do a MOT exempt tax application, you can carry on under the radar. If they ask at the outset on the tax website then they will have alot of data on all the modded cars.

The hot rod scene has been having these same conversations for years, very knowledgable people were hounded off forums because they were accused of scaremongering and exactly the same suggestions were made to keep quiet about it so not to let on. Probably why only 2000 people responded to the original consultation out of the entire classic, custom, rod, VW, yank scene etc.

/\ /\ /\ In a nutshell.

Heres' the proof that things are changing from next May:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ction/made

23e Heure wrote:

sisu wrote:On the bright side the IVA doesn't look that scary most of this is clear and not ambiguous as the 8 point aspect is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... get-a-pass

Those guidelines are pretty clear.
May bring up some additional concerns for some of us though.
EG, no brake bias adjuster allowed: "Braking ratios between axles mustn’t be manually adjustable."
Didn't some cars come fitted with this as standard? (914?)

Hi James

The standard 914 one is not adjustable so would qualify.

My Wilwood one in it's place would not!!!

Cheers
Wayne

Throw as much as you all like at me, but this is real for some of us.
Snigger at my situation, I have learnt that these changes will possibly render the car unregistered.
To me that is a worry, and I want to understand what is happening and what I need or can do to avoid this.
Possibly others will feel the same?
Hoping for the best is a dumb idea, taking action far better.

As to the lhd conversion.
Driving the lhd car with my wife made her very nervous when making a move to overtake here in the West Midlands, congestion is far worse now.
I did this change to remove this issue, and I found it interesting to do, but I like modifying things...

The Boxster in Europe was a dream, easy to blast along between cameras on the motorways, roads around SPA are very open and uncongested, so never over took anyone!
Doubt it would be the same driving through Brussels as we nearly did.

I now feel that I will leave you all in peace on this subject and press on in my own way.

Thanks to Keith and a few others for their help.

tough as it may be to swallow for some, would SORN-ing your car be a wise idea as we head into winter? its not subject to being taxed, etc., and so while you wouldn't be able to use it for 12-24 months it gives you some peace of mind until things settle down and the outcome is clear..

just read the impact assessment .. reads like theyr'e just guessing what the problems & solutions were / are

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukia/201 ... 138_en.pdf

It does beggar belief, doesn't it? The absurdity of working out the costs of a car owner filling in the forms, or attending an MOT. It gets more like Yes Minister every day. Apparently our time is worth £4.89 an hour...

Certain points raised in the consultation are those about which the general public would have no knowledge, so it is noted that there was no response to the question, as if people didn't care. Mind you, with only just over 2000 replies, I guess that's right.

I would like to meet face to face the people who write this stuff – do they really all wear sleeveless jumpers knitted for them by their mum, or are they in starched shirts with college ties? I have no idea who puts all this into print, but I'd like to know...

KS wrote:It does beggar belief, doesn't it? The absurdity of working out the costs of a car owner filling in the forms, or attending an MOT. It gets more like Yes Minister every day. Apparently our time is worth £4.89 an hour...

Yes I thought that bit was hilarious too.

What was interesting was that they estimated it would take 60 mins !!! to fill in the tax application every year, goodness knows what sort of detail they are expecting us to go into!! In a way it gave me a glimmer of hope that only if you were applying for MOT exemption would you have to make the declaration and that if you had an MOT you wouldnt be asked as thats quite a big imposition if on all 40+ yr old cars. I assume this gets clarified in the November update.