DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Timo wrote:Surely all part of the grand plan to get all old cars off the roads and force everybody down the route of buying a new “green” EV

Stage 1 - massively restrict what can get through an IVA test

Stage 2 - force 99.9% of classics through an IVA test

Stage 3 - increasingly restrict what can get through an IVA, to the point that eventually nothing will.

Or perhaps I’m just being cynical?

Sounds about the size of it.

If the free road tax is a problem then I’m sure we can just pay it and skip all the hassle!

This is beyond words ... and beyond believing ..... what should we do ?? (It's mad - all rally cars now "outlawed" so to speak) What would the French Farmers do ? ... go from there !

Surely when this ridiculousness effects the whole classic car industry, it’s an industry big enough to bring pressure to bear.


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KS wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:39 pm By implication, NO restoration can be carried out to a historic vehicle without changing its taxation class - and as it’s deemed to be modified, it would need to go through IVA.

Is this thread about applying for a V5 or is it about cars that already have a V5?

My car has a V5. I put it on SORN as it's awaiting a restoration. My insurance policy is "laid-up" type (storage). What should I do? Unsorn it, pay road insurance and road tax, before it's too late, despite the fact that the car is un-driveable?
Are classic cars still exempt from MOT?

Please advice

In the hot rod world, vehicles which are being pulled up for inspection by DVLA are generally either those changing hands, or those coming off SORN. The common denominator is that movement is suddenly showing up on DVLA’s computer.

EDIT: longterm SORN has been the main problem - cars kept tucked away for years awaiting rebuild or restoration. With rods, this could manifest itself as a Ford Pop on SORN which suddenly reappears, but with a 3.5-litre engine instead of the original 1172cc lump, for example. Alarm bells ring, car is called in for inspection and the road to IVA begins.

No chance this is going to be acted on … how would you even police it.

Without the resto threads, how would any of us , no matter some dipshit inspector, be able to tell a fully restored ‘ Barry’ shell isn’t original and un welded once in paint ?

But let’s say in a weird world it was…. Would just mean we end up with 99% of classics on a Q plate…. If were all the same there won’t be a stigma to the plate . The IVA becomes an old style extremely strict MOT …. It will be like the German TuV ?

Either way I’m predicting it won’t happen

^ But it is happening. You saw the DVLA letters on page one, right?

hot66 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:25 am No chance this is going to be acted on … how would you even police it.

Without the resto threads, how would any of us , no matter some dipshit inspector, be able to tell a fully restored ‘ Barry’ shell isn’t original and un welded once in paint ?

But let’s say in a weird world it was…. Would just mean we end up with 99% of classics on a Q plate…. If were all the same there won’t be a stigma to the plate . The IVA becomes an old style extremely strict MOT …. It will be like the German TuV ?

Either way I’m predicting it won’t happen

James, I'd love to have your confidence but as I mention in my edit above, and as clearly shown in Jonny's post, it is already happening. SORN'd vehicles are particularly at risk of being examined at the point they are returned to the road. I repeat, it IS already happening, but we're lucky in many respects in that Porsches are on the whole not such easy targets as, say, a hot rod with a gigantic blower sticking out of the hood, narrowed rear axle with 15in-wide tyres, etc. An annual declaration at the point of taxing will put the onus on the owner to show the car is unmodified. That already happens at the point of new registration, or when claiming historic status, but I am sure it will become an annual requirement, which would allow DVLA to call cars in at random for inspection - when changing hands, for example. Arguably, worst case scenario, the market for modified road cars could be killed at a stroke...

As for the 'de-stigmatisation' of Q-plates, I agree that the award of a Q-plate is the least of anyone's worries. You could always display your car at a show with its original historic reg plate if you wanted. But lets's face it, we're one of the few countries in the world where reg plates are considered an important part of the car's history.

There’s usually a reason something like this happens with a complete blindness to further implications and unintended consequences… I wonder what triggered it.

Look forward to 1000 classic cars demonstrating through London to parliament …. The mayor will have a heart attack with all the Porsche MFI motors pumping raw fuel into the atmos and upsetting his clean air

…. When I say it won’t happen … I was referring to the concept of rust repairs to stock being classed as a reason for an IVA because as mentioned it would effect all car repairs and can not be policed … no one would be able to tell if my car has had a quality repair

How would you get a quality repair done? By a workshop that keeps their work 'under the radar'? They would be legally obliged to put every restored car on a Q.

Edit:

"Dear sir,

Please find the attached works and invoice for repair work on your Aston Martin DB4. This includes additional works required for IVA (alloy wheels without spinners, rubber bumpers, hood inlet delete, side repeaters). Original number plates enclosed."

Always ways around that …. All the invoice gets sucked up into metal forming of original body …. Or into mechanical and paint

There will always be a way and of course outside of maybe our world, lots of cars are welded and repaired at home .

Sleepless night over this.

It is all so ridiculous it will be vulnerable to questioning and change as it lacks so much common sense and smacks of a Civil Service Dept acting as mavericks.

As I said earlier, dead easy to police and enforce.

To tax the car you have to
present a Certificate of compliance to factory spec from a Marque specialist (cost) to DVLA before they will allow historic status/free tax/no MoT, retain the number plate.
Present the car with an IVA Certificate (cost), get the Q plate (cost) and then you have to pay tax (of course) and have an MoT each year, no historic status. (big deal)

Job done. A Certificate confirming one position or another sent to the gods called DVLA.

Time to write to your MP.

.

I'm sure there will be sectors of the 'old car scene' that will be significantly affected (eg Keith's comments about US-style 'old skool' hotrods , cars that have been on long-term SORN, cars applying for re-instatement original registration numbers, etc) but we've been through similar - or precursor - scares before - ie when the 'significantly modified' category of historic vehicles came in:

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... hilit=DVLA

I think that most owners of modified cars that still retain their original (or similar spec from the same manufacturer) engine won't have any problems - even when sold to a new owner.

The people who are likely to come unstuck are those which have engines which differ significantly in capacity/manufacturer (eg hotrod with a huge V8 in place of 1172cc sidevalve) & those that have been swapped for electric motors - plus AC Cobra replicas still registered as Ford Cortinas, etc.

If you have a modified car - especially if you have no intention to sell it - I don't think you'll have any problems - at least not for the foreseeable future ...

As for people who post photos/videos of their highly modified cars on FB/instagram/etc ...

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The roll cage point is the one that jumps out at me .... fairly black and white . Suspect "we" need to take action on that one !!