DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

haasad wrote:Could make a nice basis for a litle hillclimb car ........ If I ever do another project this would be right up there for consideration , especially if I could buy the bits I wanted ie just a body and chassis rather than having to have a complete kit .....?

Nah, what you need for that is a chassis from an established mid engined car like a Ginetta/Dare G16 or Gardner Douglas T70, a motor from a 996 Turbo and a 908 replica body.

If I were a rich man...

Sam @ PS Autoart wrote:

£80k for a replica is silly money - you could buy a couple of early porsches that would have bullet-proof depreciation and buckets of fun and where a £80k replica is never going to go up in value and it's still just a replica. I don't see any market for this unless? I could be wrong??

There are a number of £80k+ replicas that do sell - GT40s, Cobras, C Types, Shelby Daytonas. I bet you could spend that much on a 904 or 917...

They don't sell in massive numbers, but there is a market if they are very, very good.

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I'd say the gap in the market on the 550 is for a quick one with a revvy little motor and very proper handling. There are already very nice quality ones with established names, so competing with those will be tough, but if you could make one that would stay with a Caterham it would be quite something.

I've raced Porsche's for years mostly with underpowered engines so i've always worked hard at setup - i'm very keen to make sure this 550 will handle well and will spend considerable time in developing the chassis and suspension. The issue is knowing how far to depart from the orignal setup? I could build the car with a double wishbone setup and have it all rose jointed but that makes it expesive for the DIY builder who just wants the car to look pretty. I know Arnie Black of Crossle cars (here in NI) well and he could help me develop that easily - just look at the crossle 9s which is a cracking 2.0l sports car (built around a Formula 2000 chassis) car to see what i mean.

The other option is to use VW or Porsche suspension (in some shape or form) to try to keep the car (more) authentic while keeping pricing reasonable.

The engine is another issue - again VW Porsche or something else? I could easily put a bike engine in it but that to me is not the way to go (but hey Westfield do!) or a Subaru? I like the thought of a good flat 4.

I appreciate your comments - keep them coming!

haasad wrote:Could make a nice basis for a litle hillclimb car ........ If I ever do another project this would be right up there for consideration , especially if I could buy the bits I wanted ie just a body and chassis rather than having to have a complete kit .....?

Alread with you on this - it goes without saying that we'll build a competition version of the 550 complete with roll bar / cage integrated into the chassis. It would be a fantastic hillclimb car. The first car we build will be our demo car the second will be a race car - it's that simple. I'll keep the forum posted and will have a web site where all the competition development will be seen.

Robin

redrobin911 wrote:I've raced Porsche's for years mostly with underpowered engines so i've always worked hard at setup - i'm very keen to make sure this 550 will handle well and will spend considerable time in developing the chassis and suspension. The issue is knowing how far to depart from the orignal setup? I could build the car with a double wishbone setup and have it all rose jointed but that makes it expesive for the DIY builder who just wants the car to look pretty. I know Arnie Black of Crossle cars (here in NI) well and he could help me develop that easily - just look at the crossle 9s which is a cracking 2.0l sports car (built around a Formula 2000 chassis) car to see what i mean.

The other option is to use VW or Porsche suspension (in some shape or form) to try to keep the car (more) authentic while keeping pricing reasonable.

The engine is another issue - again VW Porsche or something else? I could easily put a bike engine in it but that to me is not the way to go (but hey Westfield do!) or a Subaru? I like the thought of a good flat 4.

I wouldn't worry about dropping the Beetle set up, it's not an original car so whatever you do won't be 'right'.

By putting some decent chassis engineering into it you'll set it apart from the rest. If someone wants to look pretty in a 550 rep they already have lots of options, but if they want to chase down 911s they don't

I've never driven a natasp Subaru so wouldn't like to comment on suitability for a light car, but again, I wouldn't dismiss the idea based on it not being correct and it's much more interesting than a Duratec or bike engine. A Porsche six would, of course, be very cool but you're probably talking 5 times the cost...

I'd say getting Crossle involved would be a great move.

All this said, be careful to consider the legalities of getting one properly registered.

Sam @ PS Autoart wrote:

£80k for a replica is silly money - you could buy a couple of early porsches that would have bullet-proof depreciation and buckets of fun and where a £80k replica is never going to go up in value and it's still just a replica. I don't see any market for this unless? I could be wrong??

There are a number of £80k+ replicas that do sell - GT40s, Cobras, C Types, Shelby Daytonas. I bet you could spend that much on a 904 or 917...

They don't sell in massive numbers, but there is a market if they are very, very good.

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I'd say the gap in the market on the 550 is for a quick one with a revvy little motor and very proper handling. There are already very nice quality ones with established names, so competing with those will be tough, but if you could make one that would stay with a Caterham it would be quite something.

Yeah baby!!! put my name down for one of those

Just found this on ebay 250916653907. would be interested to see if they get what they are asking. If a replica can make this kind of money then it must be worth the effort.

Good luck with the project.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250916653907? ... 3D1&_rdc=1







It is a stunning car driven by a 993 3L will be amazingly quick! and fun!

stevesprite wrote:Just found this on ebay 250916653907. would be interested to see if they get what they are asking. If a replica can make this kind of money then it must be worth the effort.

Good luck with the project.

It's serious money for a GRP bodied version, I can see how an aluminium bodied car would be £60k+. I'm keen to see if they get their asking price and i'd be more than pleased if they did!!

the garage selling it are in Chesterfield and I'm working there next week I think I might just go and have a look at it

I'd be very surprised if it sells for anything like the asking price ...

The back end looks all wrong ,seems to be sitting to high .Cannot see it getting anywhere near that price .The one autobhan where selling a while ago was even better at 1/2 that price did not have a Porsche engine mind you

I rang the guy selling the 550 on ebay with a veiw to go and have a look round it. He told me the car isn't with him at the moment as is was going to the States but the buyer backed out due to the import costs? He did say as soon as he gets it he will let me have a look round. I asked why such a high price tag? his answer was that the build quality is the best you will ever see, it was built and owned by someone who is involved with one of the F1 teams and the engine has been mapped and setup by them also so has the suspention! The kit is a "SPY" so it says on the chassis plate (I've not heard of them?) the bonett is carbon fiber and so are some of the other parts of the car? The engine is 993 air cooled and "a new unit" (in his words) with a 915 gearbox with Porsche suspention and running gear.
When I've had a look round it and a drive I'll report back

It sounds awesome and the engine looks a very tidy installation but I agree the stance and tyres are wrong - should maybe go a bit higher profile to make it look a bit more period. That rear stance is a bit odd and I'm wondering if the 993 is preventing them from lowering the rear to make it look right - if this much works has gone into it it's hard to believe they wouldn't have made the rear look right if they could have done.

The price sounds more like they are asking for the total build cost as I doubt the sum of the parts would come anywhere near the asking price. Funny how the builders of these high price replicas are always somebody who works in F1 or Aerospace or something. My mate works in F1 and I wouldn't trust anything he'd built. Also was it an F1 off-road team as the rear end is way too high.

You can buy an early 911 and stuff a 3.6 in for much less and still have a Porsche.

Lets hope the brakes aren't drum brakes with 350hp to stop.

Nige! Are you having a Victor Meldrew day mate?

It does look too high I agree but if that's how it has to be for the best road handling then that's it! (not that I think it looks good like that!) my car is going to have new suspention fitted at the end of this month and after fitting I'm taking it to Centre Gravity to be set up. Talking to Chris at Centre Gravity he said that he will set the ride hight higher on mine but he said he will make it handle like never before! Some people may say the same about mine after tho I would rather have something I can use and use to its full potential than it just looking pretty (and I can always lower it for just ploding round in! Oh I forgot I don't do Ploding ).
I also agree for the same mone you could have a very nice sub 73 911 or similar but God don't you just love the 550 Spyder?