DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Gary71 wrote:Is it’s just the centre caps that make them different? My knowledge isn’t good enough on that topic

The 'ring type' centre caps only fit the later wheels ('74 model-on) - & the caps with the 2 small holes are even later versions.

If they'd used the first version of the 'ring-type' centre caps (without the holes) nobody would know the wheels were later unless they removed the centre caps (or the wheels) ...

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matteo68 wrote:

gridgway wrote:For me the numbers are just eye-watering. £118k resto (car driven 158 miles since). £70k to buy and rebuild the RS motor.

And I love the commentary... "Inside, the re-trimmed blue leather upholstery is in great shape, with only a few very minor creases on the seats." How can there be minor creases on re-upholstered seats that have done 158 bottom-miles?

Fascinating!

How much do you think a good restoration can be done for then if £118k is eyewatering?

Ah, yes, I'm certainly not saying that the amount is too high for a decent resto, but taken as a whole, nearly £200k has been put into the car (not including the cost of the car nor the return of the 2.4S motor) for 158 mlles of use before putting it up for sale. That's what I don't understand. But maybe it's all a matter of context and disposable cash.

If I look at my own 911. It cost £70k not that long ago with a lacklustre 2.0 E motor on carbs and I will have spent net £8k to change the motor out for an S spec MFI motor and another £2k on some suspension mods (mainly addition of F&R ARBs). Mind you, the snagging and project work has taken forever to do and I haven't had it to drive for over 12 months. So maybe that's mad too!

gridgway wrote:
If I look at my own 911. It cost £70k not that long ago with a lacklustre 2.0 E motor on carbs and I will have spent net £8k to change the motor out for an S spec MFI motor and another £2k on some suspension mods (mainly addition of F&R ARBs). Mind you, the snagging and project work has taken forever to do and I haven't had it to drive for over 12 months. So maybe that's mad too!

Now factor in your own labour at £75 per hour, counting every last second, and calculate the new price.

I don't know if by eye-watering, you mean "how does a restorer rack up that much cost" or "I don't know how consumers can justify spending it". The former is down to sound business practice - do quality work, have an hourly rate, and bill every minute. The latter is down to a few people having a lot of disposable cash. Some people pay ten times that for one handbag.

RobFrost wrote:

gridgway wrote:
If I look at my own 911. It cost £70k not that long ago with a lacklustre 2.0 E motor on carbs and I will have spent net £8k to change the motor out for an S spec MFI motor and another £2k on some suspension mods (mainly addition of F&R ARBs). Mind you, the snagging and project work has taken forever to do and I haven't had it to drive for over 12 months. So maybe that's mad too!

Now factor in your own labour at £75 per hour, counting every last second, and calculate the new price.

I don't know if by eye-watering, you mean "how does a restorer rack up that much cost" or "I don't know how consumers can justify spending it". The former is down to sound business practice - do quality work, have an hourly rate, and bill every minute. The latter is down to a few people having a lot of disposable cash. Some people pay ten times that for one handbag.

I'm not really commenting on the specifics of what restorers charge, but I stand by my comment. Nearly 200k spent on refurbing a car is an eyewatering amount of money to then drive it for 158 miles and put it up for sale at an almost certain loss.

ETA: And also 10x200k=£2m is also an eye watering amount of money to spend on a handbag!

totally agree

As long as a piece of string is?

There cannot be a fixed cost to restore (anything).

Restore a river-bed 911 with a good bulkhead/number = a lot.
Restore a 911 from a one owner dry state = less.

Do the restoration DIY (ie like Gary) and the cost is different again.
What is a 'Restoration'?
Means a few different things to many people, and I doubt a 911 can be restored to the exact definition of the word from the English Dictionary.

I 'restored' (in my mind at the time) my 911 in 1988, car was £3000 and it cost me about another 3K.
It was, of course, simply rebuilt to get an MoT and go hill climbing.

If anyone want to spend say £150K on a pro rebuild and the car sells for £110K (say) then so be it. Restorer is happy, for sure owner too I presume, just a shrug of the shoulders.

The real winner materially is the new owner who gets a relative bargain, just needs a bulk of cash at thier disposal.

Seems plenty of them about imho.

Incidentally about the RS engine.

Is a factory RS engine still one if somebody else has had it apart and back together?

911hillclimber wrote: Incidentally about the RS engine.

Is a factory RS engine still one if somebody else has had it apart and back together?

yes

It still has the correct and confirmed RS 911/83 type number and engine number 663xxxx.


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I think they’ve spent a lot of money on the running gear and very little on the shell / bodywork. It’s not just the rear wheel arch that looks odd. Shame given the potential.

Do we know who 911 Cars are? There are obviously lots of incorrect details and pretty average fit and finish, but the website suggests they’re fancy.

Post code suggests a kwikfit

These can make any car seem like great value. https://www.sothebys.com/en/articles/th ... irkin-bags

A nice looking 997, but being sold by a trader as a private sale on CC. He's claiming one owner, but he's the second owner (as it's in his private collection), but it's registered to trade , but not a trade sale. CC really need to get their act together.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/200 ... 2#comments

It's been amended now to read as a trade sale.

assume this lot : https://www.georgemackay.co.uk/