DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker
The 'Maverick' Classic Porsche Club for 356, Aircooled 911, 912, 914 & Replicas

Just in case we forget - it's at the top of every page!

We have a wide range of interests and aspirations.

I owned a RHD 1969 911S when they were cheap, rusty, fast and fun cars at 10 years old. I made my contribution to their rarity and increasing value by smashing it into a substantial stone hedge on a Hillclimb, and then breaking it for spares because it wasn't worth the £3k it would have cost then to repair. It probably had its original paint on most of the floor, and the signature under the dash top, though I neither knew nor cared, but it didn't have its original sills or front wings, they had rusted out already...…. It was there to drive and enjoy, and I did that to the full.

However, it is NOT the way to encourage a newbie to both Porsche and DDK to tell him that he has made the sort of mistake that a naïve 17-year-old would make. There are more pleasant ways to help and encourage others.
Does it really matter how the floor is painted, when it will probably be covered with carpet and not seen again?
What value is Fritz the factory sprayer's signature on the dash when the car has been completely resprayed at least twice by its enthusiastic late former owner?

I really do hope that Knapmann stays with us, although I would understand if he doesn't. He has started on a fun project, which will turn out a great car that I hope he will enjoy driving. If we can help him on his journey, then it will be so much better for all of us.

Although I will probably never have an immaculate all numbers matching car myself, I can still admire them, and do. They are just not my thing. Luckily DDK is big enough to cover all tastes, and that is its strength, as long as we respect one another.

Cheers!

JW

Sorry Bootsy, our posts overlapped. You put it rather more succinctly than me!

JW

Bootsy wrote:Wise words - this hobby takes all sorts. You just have to embrace it

jwhillracer wrote:Luckily DDK is big enough to cover all tastes, and that is its strength, as long as we respect one another.

Agree! Luckily most people in this hobby (DDK and outside) get that, I find. It's not really about the cars...

inaglasshouse wrote:It costs approximately zero pounds more to paint a floor a bit more authentically

Exactly.


Knapmann,
It's not too late. Hammerite can be removed fortunately.
Here:
https://www.ehow.co.uk/how_7175634_remo ... erite.html

Just a query, is the general view that this is an original floor? I'm not so up on earlier cars so am genuinely interested. When did the factory start putting down rubber sound deadening for example? And is that line of paint on the bulkhead original?

Flat 6 wrote:Just a query, is the general view that this is an original floor? I'm not so up on earlier cars so am genuinely interested. When did the factory start putting down rubber sound deadening for example? And is that line of paint on the bulkhead original?

No it's not original - Paul had painted it (and possibly more) at least once. (Fact vs opinion)

OK so I have collected my toys and put them back in my pram. Im sorry for pissing anyone off as I know that you all have the best interests of the car at heart. As with everything when it comes to these things we all have to decide what is worth spending our funds on and what is not. Floors no one will ever see is not something I will be spending money on over interior/exterior trim etc beyond making sure they stay rust free. If some future owner one day long in the future wants to dip/blast this shell with its 4+ layers of paint and take it back to super original condition then as long as I keep it solid they will be able to do that. There cant be many UK supplied 60s cars with as solid a body and as little welding done to it as this one out there. Im told its only ever had its nose section replaced.

Yes I shouldnt have painted the dash, I thought it was just some previous owner scribbling and I know the dashes rot out on these due to windscreen leaks
Yes I will try and remove the paint on the dash but I wouldnt hold out much hope of getting it off without taking everything off particularly crayon
I would still brush paint the floors tomorrow, im not investing loads of money time and effort in painting floors with spray equipment I'd have to invest in.

I would like to thank everyone also for the positive messages and PMs I have received.

So moving on.

Cleaned up the struts




Floor Boards - these were in poor condition, particularly the drivers side one was worse for wear, but at £230 each Ill fix these rather than buy new ones. (Surely you could make repros of these from plastic or bent ally for about £10 each??) Part of the reason I couldnt figure out mounting them is because the driveds side one had broken off mounting tabs and the passenger side one cant be from this car because it wont fit around the drain pipe from the blower. I had to cut a chunk out of it to get it to fit. As you can see im missing the clutch pedal stopper...





Those were my main weekend jobs. So im eyeing up whats next, coming up in not to distant future is finishing the dash, A-post vinyl and fitting the headliner. I have lots of questions in this regard.

1) Should there be foam stuck to the C pillars? I can see that the A and B pillars had foam but there is no trace of foam on the C pillars?


2) Fitting my headlining I think I need the A & B post vinyl fitted first as they tuck under the headliner? How about the C pillar? Do I need to have anything fitted other than the A&B vinyl and the interior light wiring?

3) Heres my dash pad, unsurprisingly for such an old item it is not in top condition, its not terrible but its not great either. You can see evidence of filling and repairs in places, mostly around the front edge near the screen where its not so obvious. Theres the usual crack too. You can see some of the metal work inside is rusted and coming away. If I could get a better one for a couple of hundred pounds I would be doing so but thats not going to happen. I can either run it as is with more local repairs (are there any good guides/methods for repairing cracks etc?), or try and vinyl cover it (looks DIY doable from youtube videos ive seen). Covering it though will not leave the original finish, also the ones I have seen have all had the speaker grillle covered over which is a clear tell tale. Covering it and not covering over the speaker grille may be possible but maybe the difference in finish will then look stupid when you put the grille in the now not matching dash. What do we all think, cover or touch up or just leave alone?

On another note, i believe 69 dashes are 1 year only based on the speaker grille size?, can anyone confirm if this dash is a 69?








4) Dash trim - is there something supposed to fill this gap between the knee guard and the dash, it looks quite big to me but I cant see anything on the diagrams. Or is it just kind of covered once the facia is stuck on?


5) Speaking of facias I have random bit sand pieces I need to make a set out of, Ill need to be cutting my own vinyl up etc. Is the vinyl supposed to wrap under the facia at its ends like in this picture? or is it cut flush?


6) I have these bits of trim, the badge seems to be a dash badge but I thought they were all "911T / 911E / 911S" mine is just "911", whats the deal? I assume its not right for my car?
also pictured are some thin bits of alloy trim, where do these go?


7) Dash Knobs - I have none except the cig lighter? When I have looked at pictures of cars from the period the knobs seem to be different all the time! What are the correct knobs for a 69? The demister and the hazard switch have bulbs in them so the knobs must light up, the headlight switch doesnt so is this supposed to match the cig lighter?

Whats this part off? Is it a targa part? I assumed it was a dash part at first...


9) What is the easiest way to find out the build spec of my car? I see you can buy a Kardex? But they cost a lot for what they are, is there any other way?

10) I have two drivers side door handles, can you flip the barrel in the handle to make one a passenger side handle?

Right I still have loads more questions but im tired now and you must be too if you have reached down here...

Glad to have you back.
69 dash speaker grille is a one year only size as you say. Do you have the grille ? They are hard to get being so rare. If you have it then the dash top is worth repairing as original. It might be possible to make one. Otherwise, do you have the speaker itself which fits underneath? Are you going to fit a radio anyway? If your car is going to have a sports purpose bent I’ve seen battery cut off switches mounted there on plain vinyl (no holes) with radio delete.
This will impact on what you want to do with the lower dash, where a radio would normally sit, where you could fit a radio delete panel (original or repro or fabricated) or just cover the radio hole with basket weave vinyl fitted over the lower dash pieces you have. The vinyl wraps round the edges a little and not cut cut off ‘flush’ with the edge.

Regards
Mike

Just as an aside, if ever you want to remove Hammerite from anything, unleaded petrol just dissolves it without any effort, for some unknown reason. The modern Hammerite does not have all the ‘harmful H & S additives’ it used to from years ago, when nothing would shift the stuff. Modern Hammerite now just dissolves in petrol. I did my lawnmower petrol tank with it. Spilt some down the side, and it took it clean off!

Good to see you have resumed your reports!

The crack in the dash top is prob due to stress or strained by poor disassembly in the past, they are delicate and awkward to remove and re-fit, so any filler there I fear will crack on installation.
Super rare part, and if I were you I would clean and re-install and put it down to its past years. I have an ex race car RHD dash with bruises from roll cage installs etc, bit it looks ok.

The gap by the knee pads is quite normal and will be partly filled by the stick-on trim Andy referred to a few posts back. It is extruded aluminium with some steel inserts for radios etc. If you have non, try ebay.
I think the locks are not handed but stand to be corrected.

Like the rest of your report!
Floor board repairs are sound and will be lost under the carpets.
The thin trims are off the door pockets I think.

I left mine out 30 years back, they are nice to have but fragile.

Keep going, we want more!!

210bhp wrote:Glad to have you back.
69 dash speaker grille is a one year only size as you say. Do you have the grille ? They are hard to get being so rare. If you have it then the dash top is worth repairing as original. It might be possible to make one. Otherwise, do you have the speaker itself which fits underneath? Are you going to fit a radio anyway? If your car is going to have a sports purpose bent I’ve seen battery cut off switches mounted there on plain vinyl (no holes) with radio delete.
This will impact on what you want to do with the lower dash, where a radio would normally sit, where you could fit a radio delete panel (original or repro or fabricated) or just cover the radio hole with basket weave vinyl fitted over the lower dash pieces you have. The vinyl wraps round the edges a little and not cut cut off ‘flush’ with the edge.

Regards
Mike

Hi Mike

From what I understand you are saying only the seperate grill piece is 69 only? I thought is was the dimensions of the grille piece and therefore also the dash pad itself as well. I have a grille but I didnt take a picture of it, Ill take one tonight. I dont have a speaker. I have a period radio I can fit in the dash but im not sure what direction I will take in this regard yet as I do want some modern sounds as well if I can install something without any cutting of things. The radio setup looks off for a few reasons

1) the slot in my dash is DIN sized and the period radio is much smaller than the hole so im not sure how they mount... it doesnt look like the dash has been cut but maybe it has been?
2) the heater cables intrude into the area behind the slot so as to make installing a radio difficult? This seems odd, obviously you cant move the cables anywhere as they go though the bulkhead right behind the radio slot...

Another thought, are Euro dash knobs different to USA dash knobs? I know they had different rules around labelling of switches and knobs...

Headlinging
2) Fitting my headlining I think I need the A & B post vinyl fitted first as they tuck under the headliner? How about the C pillar? Do I need to have anything fitted other than the A&B vinyl and the interior light wiring?

No - the headlining goes in first, then the A & B post needs to be fitted over the headlining C pillar is the headlining itself but needs pulled down. The door seals are then glued in last. You will need 100's of clips to clip the headling in place before sticking, I assume you have the headinging bows?? you might want to get some new rubber ends for the bows them prior to fitting depending on their condition. The underside of you roof should also have a sounddeadening pad - I've not checked all your pics but just mentioning prior to you doing the job. The pad can help keep the bows in place.

knapmann wrote:

Whats this part off? Is it a targa part? I assumed it was a dash part at first...

That's the cross-piece which fits to the front edge of the rear parcel shelf ...

.

Good to see you back Knapmann!

Can't help much on the detail but unless it's going to annoy you visually I'd simply clean up and reinstall the dash. Yes they are fixable and recoverable (someone had that done by a trimmer recently on here I think and it was like new). Where there is rusty metal in the frame it would be useful treating it with something like Bilt Hamber's Hydrate 80 which you just leave on.

Not sure what you mean about heater controls getting in the way of the radio? They should be above this? My radio space is empty so I plan just to make a plate from steel and cover it with the right vinyl.

Al