911 the best drivers car out there?

Dyno Soar · Post by **Dyno Soar** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:50 pm

The best driver’s car ever? It’s been a rainy day here and during one my improve tea breaks I began a conversation with a fellow car fan. The subject fell upon the best all round drivers car that you can buy.
The criterion fell around, purchase price driver involvement and running costs.

I voted for the Porsche 911 and you all know I own the beast.

He however is convinced it’s the BMW M3 and he happens to own one of those beasties.

The problem lies in the fact I have never driven an E36 M3 and he has never driven a 3.2 equipped light bodied 911. We are both swearing blind that our respective cars are the one, as it were.

The admin girl suggest we both try each others motors but that ain’t never gonna happen… we both fell about laughing.

Here’s the evidence:

84 3.2 Porsche 911 circa 13k for a semi decent one. 230bhp around 1300kg. It’s a weekend driver seats 2 comfortably. Very dynamic car, I should know it’s the most amazing car I have driven for what it gives back to the driver. However mine is somewhat lighter than a stockish 3.2 car.

VS

97 BMW M3 coupe Evo 3.2 circa 7-8k for semi decent one. 300bhp around 1400kg. Driven every day and seats 4. He says he tracked it and drives the nuts off it and its simply amazing. Also comes with the ability to be used every day, aircon and all that.

I must say he has a point. I have driven a few sport beemers and they have been great cars. Not on par with a 911 tho... but I have never driven the M variety.

Any opinions? Are they really that good?

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:21 pm

Where's pmjt when you need him ey?

Obviously from my limited experience with the e36 M3 3.0 litres and afterwards 3.2, i find it a blunt instrument with 4 seats. Its a very capable sporty tourer but ultimately flawed as a sports car. Its Vmax was lifted and even with the 3.0 litres we did in 1995 286 km/h in Germany. The "figures" of an M3 looks good when you are comparing it vs a 3.2 carrera.

On the other hand, a 3,2 carrera is a sports car with a reliability that matches a daily tourer such as the M3. However, a 1984 is equipped with the 915 gearbox and anyone not used to both the dynamics, rawness of a 911 and the "brittleness" of a 915 gearbox will find that
*the hydraulic pressure plate of the clutch will go (i had a friend stamping on my clutch and there it went- you need to shift with a few mm of floor)
*upshifts from 2nd into 3rd were difficult etc

So ergo, a non experienced driver will probably be quicker in a BMW M3, an aficionado will wipe the floor with a 3.2 carrera.

HTH,

Bert

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:25 pm

actually its quite a tough choice.

i guess if the car has to used as an everyday car i might have to opt for the BMW as it dosn't stand out from the crowd. you can park it in Tescos car park amoung all the other rep mobiles and no-ones going to look twice at it..

BUT who am i kidding, im afraid im shallow and rather like my cars standing out from the crowd............which is why i actually own Porsches

912uk · Post by **912uk** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:34 pm

Well we have the E46 BMW and it's a nice car for sure but over a 912/911 I would say the 911 is more hands on driving...... were as the BMW is alot more comfort and it's more weightly, Liek Helen says a car you can park in the carpark and not worry where as a Porsche is a magnet to nutters.......

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:50 pm

best 'all round car'

vs

best 'drivers' car

sod compromises , who cares for an all rounder , if we are talking sports cars it has to be

' what is the best drivers car ' ?

simple answer, Porsche 911.

Remember its not about outright speed etc, but the car that involves, excites , stimulates and challenges the driver

of course all IMHO

Dyno Soar · Post by **Dyno Soar** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:56 pm

912uk wrote: where as a Porsche is a magnet to nutters.......

Is that why we have all got em

stevieboy · Post by **stevieboy** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:08 pm

Alam your asking the wrong people, we,re all going to say 911, otherwise Herr Bootsy will kick us off the forum.

How you anyway.

Dyno Soar · Post by **Dyno Soar** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:26 pm

I'm very married and loved baby

You were right essex is a nice place to get hitched.
You?

Anyway at least I got some amunition next time I see the chap in the coffee room.
He was talking them up so much... now I'll sort him out.

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:09 pm

You are comparing a fully tricked up road saloon with a sports car bred for the road. Probably quite equal by comparison... 'till you get them on the track. I wouldn't mind betting that in a long race, the 911 will have the BMW on brakes, cooling, handling, comfort and reliability. ...and then you can start to tune the 911

Tim

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Best driver's car ?

What are the criteria ?

I have to say that a Porsche 911 would not be my top choice...

... & it certainly wouldn't be any BMW - besides an E30 M3 is a much more entertaining drive than the E36 (or any other variant).

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:03 pm

I've had an M3 saloon for 6 years. Not an evo but there is no doubt it is a car that does everything well but it is just too good to the point of being bland. It's fast, reliable and a very comfortable cruiser but if you had asked me to drive to this year's Le Mans Classic in it, it would have been just another drive...................... whereas the same drive in the RS was EXCITING!!!!!!!!!!

Regards
Mike

onespeed · Post by **onespeed** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:49 am

well I,d say Caterham 7

Dyno Soar · Post by **Dyno Soar** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:39 pm

Lightweight_911 wrote:Best driver's car ?

What are the criteria ?

I have to say that a Porsche 911 would not be my top choice...

... & it certainly wouldn't be any BMW - besides an E30 M3 is a much more entertaining drive than the E36 (or any other variant).

Go on then Andy... what do you reckon is the best drivers car?

I really don't understand you dislike of beemers..

dey is tops!

veryporky · Post by **veryporky** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:11 pm

Well firstly I'd agree with LWT. Of all the M series BMWs I believe the E30 M3 stands out. That was bred as a racer as opposed to made into one like the later M3s. Never driven one but everybody who has really rates them. They might not be as fast as the later ones but like our own RS the agility/tactility is unmatched by the later cars. That's how they kept up with the 500bhp Cossies in touring cars despite being down around 30% on power.

So what makes a driver's car? Well first consider what does not: a bloated overweight modern saloon that rolls around and cushions driver inputs. Way to easy to drive and totally unresponsive. Requires very little from the driver to make it go.

IMO a real driver's car is the complete opposite. Each input needs to be carefullly considered. An early 911 (and most since) needs smooth precise steering inputs, skill when cog swapping the 915, timing/precision/smoothness when braking and accelerating in and out of the corners, etc., etc. The faster you go the more critical these aspects become. Then take that and drive it swiftly in the wet........

Then you see why it is often refered to as the 'ultmate driver's car'.

In a nutshell the more you apply yourself to driving it the more satisfying it is to drive ... but then I'm heavily biased like the rest of us

Gilbert '71 T · Post by **Gilbert '71 T** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:08 pm

veryporky wrote:In a nutshell the more you apply yourself to driving it the more satisfying it is to drive ...

I think that sums it up nicely Keith