2.4T engine rebuild - Shock: It actually runs!

[sladey]

My engine stand is with Sladey, you are welcome to use that.
I was going to 2.2S p&b with E ish cams. But my plans are firmly on hold for now, and the 2.2 T is going nicely anyway

Yep it's in the attic above my shed (thanks Tim)

Happy to work with you in getting it to you - maybe using the ddk courier service

[sladey]

As you may remember on my thread I went up to investigate an oil leak and within a couple of hours everything was in bits on the floor.

With the stuff we found part way down the engine it was a no brainer to go all the way - and a good job we did when we found the corrosion /wear on one of the big end bearings - up to this point, apart from the Torrey Canyon behaviour the engine was pulling well (much better now though)

I think those cam people re ground mine - and I had my rockers refaced too - they did a nice job and pretty prompt IIRC

Another whole-hearted recommendation for Mike. He let me get involved in the latter part of the rebuild under his supervision - which I really enjoyed

[hot66]

Mike B has an engine stand ( or will do soon) that he will lend out in return for a donation to the DDK charity ... Gary, give him a call

[fetuhoe]

If the bores are significantly worn then there should be a discernible step.

If you can't detect any step then I suppose you could worry about ovality but this is unlikely with a Nikasil liner.

If you can detect a step with a fingernail then I would just re-plate as a matter of routine.

If you want to measure the bore then the most cost effective way is to buy a simple Telescopic Bore Gauge and a matching Micrometer.

Chronos sell a set of 6 on EBay for £12.50.

If you buy a decent micrometer than accuracy will be quite good enough.

[Gary71]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but what are you planning to use to measure the cylinder bores?

I've no idea! I just intend to take the cylinders down to the metrology lab and ask them

I need to read up on the spec, but I can't think that more than +0.1mm would be acceptable and probably much tighter than that for ovality. The next overbore size is +0.5mm so that will take care of most things I expect if there is an issue. I fully expect there to be an issue as I have no idea of the rebuild history of the engine.

...it was a no brainer to go all the way

Another whole-hearted recommendation for Mike.

Agreed, I can convince myself I'm not going to, but of course I will take it all apart! I just have a fear of this mag case springing out of shape and never going back again once I release the studs.

My engine stand is with Sladey,

Happy to work with you in getting it to you - maybe using the ddk courier service

Sounds good, although you are not really that far away so I might just drive over one evening and collect it. Is it just the adapter or the full stand? (just so I can chose the right car to bring!)

Mike B has an engine stand ( or will do soon) that he will lend out in return for a donation to the DDK charity ... Gary, give him a call

I will be calling him anyway to follow up on the long email I sent him today as I know he doesn't read them (apologies if you read this Mike!)

[impmad2000]

It's the adaptor AND stand Gary.

[Gary71]

Thanks Tim, that precludes a Continental GT then

[sladey]

No it all breaks down quite a bit

[Gary71]

You have pm

[Strictly]

subscribed! im going to rebuild my 2.4T engine when cash allows, hoping to start sometime this winter. Might as well go the whole hog.

A quick check of your p&c's is putting a feeler guage in the top ring land, with a new ring, anymore than 0.004 and its junk. Thats straight out of Andersons book.

Lindsey Porter/Peter Morgan 911 restoration book, has some good info too. Ive read Dempsys cover to cover, just waiting on some cash for the build. It sounds like MB will be doing my gearbox AND machining! Ive been wondering who to use.

I'll save all my questions till my own thread, rather than filling yours up lol

[Gary71]

Ok to combine the questions, they will probably be the same! I've lined up some new pistons to push the CR up and current plan is rebore anyway to 84.5mm irrespective of condition as it's not expensive on iron cylinders.

I intend to start in a couple of weeks once I've got some decorating and work trip out of the way.

Machining is TBA at present as I have a couple more people to talk to. MB is ideal but workload is an issue and I'm not the best at waiting!

[myatt1972]

P.S Anyone have a 911 engine stand I can borrow?

Bit late but I have a Clarke engine stand and one of Beetlejac's yoke's that you are more than welcome to borrow and as you know Im just down the road...ish.

[Strictly]

ok cool, i'lll add some questions - better to be ahead of the game right - good for both of us. Hope its going to be pic heavy! =)

How much are your high compression P's? What is your guestimate for the price to bore the cylinders? Like you i want more power from the T engine, but havent yet decided to either go for it or rebuild as standard. What is your estimate for increase in BHP/Torque? Still run the zeniths or ditch for webers?

My questions would be :

Should the following below definatly be done when the case is split? : Ive read the 2.4 T's engines will run "forever", as not that stressed. Perhaps with a power increase, this all changes.

A) Boat tail?
B) case savers for head studs?
C) oil bypass and move to later pump?
D) shuffle pin?

E) I read in one of the technical spec book books that you shouldnt move the position of the con rods (i,e if it was #6 orginally, put it back on #6, assuming all in spec)?

Anderson adds, that to get a near perfect balance, the two heaviest rods with Pistons and pins, should be closest to the flywheel, followed by the next set, and so son, which contradicts the technical spec of not moving them. If i were to reuse the same P's, can i move the piston pins to balance the weight, or should I keep them with the original piston, and lathe the inside of the pin for balancing purposes (if required)

F) Anyone know the maximum for rocker arm side clearance - i cant find that info, seems like they move from side to side a fair bit (say 0.016"),i noticed this when i did the valve adjustment.

G) I learned this one from the vw engines ive built - but not sure if its relevant to a flat six, but probally is. During disaasembly of a VW (flat 4), if you torque the 6 main case studs, and perimeter bolts back to spec, and then turn the engine over. If it goes tight, then the case is warped (assuming you could turn it over before). Does this idea still apply? Im guessing as long as im down to a short block with the chains removed it should

ive got a load more, but thats the first ones i suppose.

[911hillclimber]

Just my personal opinion to your questions:
Get the Dempsey book on re-building the 911 6 cylinder engine. It is well laid-out, clear and accurate, it covers mods as well.

If you do all the above mods you can only end-up with a better engine at the high cost.
Are they required? Opinion will vary between many people, but for a road running engine I doubt most of those mods are a MUST, but can't hurt if you can afford them.

I built an E 2.4 with S spec p&b a long time ago with just the bypass mod, on mech injection, my first 911 engine build.
Ran 180 bhp when Bob Watson had finished tuning the injection etc.
Thrashed that engine hillclimbing for years, never missed a beat, spent a lot of time on WOT on the 7400 rpm limiter...

You are building a nice pepped-up road going T engine, not a 2.8 RSR for SPA 6 hours?

One person I would trust is Mike Bainbridge of MB Engineeering as Mike will give you simple sound advice against the engine's use. He is very user-friendly, so give him a call.

[bjmullan]

I certainly know the two things that Mike will recommend; the oil bypass mod to the casing and also a later oil pump. These are two of the things that was done to my re-build engine. I'm with Jonathan (911hillclimber) on the other mods not being necessary for a road engine.