Frazer Nash/BMW 319

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jeremyg
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Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

I know it looks like this post shouldn’t be in Classic Porsche chat but as it involves (along the way) AFN, some Classic Porsche and a Porsche addict I thought it might be allowed.

Hopefully it’ll distract from our current indecision as to where to have a national DDK meet (for my monies worth we should piggyback a national event, pre-meet and drive in in convoy, so we can get parked up together, and enjoy the good music and ambience someone else has laid on - Megaphonics at Boxengasse is really good, pretty central and tickets are still available, and it’ll need precious little planning!)

Anyway, I digress. I may have mentioned this before on here, but for many years I’ve carried around in my wallet these dog-eared photos of my father’s old Frazer Nash/BMW.

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Back in 2015, ddk’er and Mr all things GN/Frazer Nash Winston Teague put me in contact with the Archivist at the Frazer Nash Archives, Mike Sythes. He came up trumps with details about the car, chassis number, some owners, but said it was now in Germany, under restoration. Appetite whetted, I tried to trace the new owner/restorer but investigations led nowhere and other stuff happened in life, other Porsche were bought, enjoyed and sold, but over the years the pictures stayed in my wallet - a lovely memory of my father, and of the many cars he owned, and generously let me drive over the years before his death. I was indeed the son of a petrolhead.

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Last year though, I suppose frustrated that I hadn’t found the car, I realised I was becoming besotted with the idea that I should try and own one, and when this came up on BaT I followed the auction..

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anglophone1
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by anglophone1 »

I detect further stuff coming Jeremy?
I'd be up for a Megaphonics meetup- never been but it looks cool and August works too!
In reality we are still waiting for someone to step up and organise.......................
C
Clive
West Cork, Ireland

RGruppe #814
1978 SC/1984 3.2 Outlaw -Jaffa 911
1973 914 - on Webers - historic rally car- Tango 914
1977 924 2.0 on Webers street legal race car - Martini 924
Flachbau -in progress
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

Yes - more coming.. and I suggested Megaphonics again purely as it needs no organisation. Anyone interested buys a ticket, and we agree a time and place where we can meet up beforehand and convoy in. A bit of Blue Peter badge production would help each of us recognise fellow members..

Anyway - back to the BaT auction. Frazer Nash 319’s tend to be expensive, and the price this 35 model stuck at, unsold, surprised me - just £54k. The ones I’d seen advertised elsewhere were between £150-250k!


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And the notes on its history were pretty interesting too.

‘Chassis 55008 is said to have been sold new to the Hereditary Grand Duke of Hesse, whose death in a 1937 plane crash left the car to his brother, the Prince of Hesse and by Rhine. By the late 1970s, the car had been relocated to the UK, where it was reportedly prepared for competition’

This got me delving into history I knew nothing about. The Hereditary Grand Duke of Hesse - George Donatus, was German royalty - linked by birth to our Royal Family’.

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He married Princess Cecilie of Greece and Denmark - Prince Philip’s sister. Yes - that close!

And the more I read the more intriguing this car was - potentially - if it could be proven it was really the car owned by The Hereditary Grand Duke. How come this car didn’t sell - its potential provenance was amazing!

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But the Hereditary Grand Duke hadn’t owned it long - the details of the plane crash he died in are pretty startling. Wikipedia filled me in

‘On 16 November 1937, Georg Donatus, Cecilie, their two young sons, Georg's mother Grand Duchess Eleonore, the children's nurse, a family friend, a pilot and two crewmen, flew from Darmstadt bound for the United Kingdom, where Prince Louis was due to be married. The Junkers Ju 52 aeroplane hit a factory chimney near Ostend and crashed into flames, killing all those on board. Cecilie was heavily pregnant with her fourth child at the time of the crash, and the remains of the newborn baby were found in the wreckage, indicating that Cecilie had gone into labour during the flight; the Belgian inquiry into the crash suggested that the pilot was attempting to land in Ostend despite the poor weather conditions because of the birth.’

After this tragedy, the family wedding, with Prince Philip and Lord Mountbatten attended, went on, with the funerals held in Germany subsequently, and eventually the car was left to Prince Louis.

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I read the rest of the car’s history, and it’s time in the UK before it was exported to America again and decided I would look into it more to see if it was worth making a bid for it post auction.
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

The auction materials included invoices for work done when the car was in the UK. One was from Roach Manufacturing Ltd - a well respected restorers/manufacturers in Hampshire.

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On the slim off chance that someone might remember a car they had in 2006, I phoned them, and a young sounding voice answered. In answer to my enquiry he said ‘try me’. He did indeed know the car and said it was owned by a Phil Evans, and yes they did the work and back then it was certainly a good car.

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He said Phil had been intending to use the car in VSCC trials, and that’s why he’d moved the petrol tank to the back to put weight over the back wheels.

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This was all really encouraging. If the car had had serious money spent on it for work by the right people then certainly it was worth pursuing.

I decided to see if I could go through the VSCC and learn more about the car.
GonzoBard
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by GonzoBard »

Very interesting, keep it coming!
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

Another of the letters on the BaT auction site was one sent to the DVLA.

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So this was in 2005 just after a Phil Evans has bought the car in Dodds Sales Room in Mold Flintshire, where it was being sold on behalf of the High Court Enforcement Officer. Why I wondered? What on earth had happened to the car following its ownership by German royalty…

The more I looked at pictures of it the more convinced I became that I should get to the bottom of it!

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I phoned a VSCC contact to find who I should talk to, and pretty quickly was hearing some off-putting things. It was deemed to be a ‘suspect’ car said one person. Quite what that meant I didn’t know. Another recalled the auction and said something rather telling - that ‘half the VSCC membership was at that auction’. I began to wonder that it wasn’t a touch of hard grapes being voiced because there were no doubt many losers in the bidding- mind you the
The High Court Enforcement Officer business sounded ominous. I needed to know more.

For some reason I’d thought that the winning bidder, Phil Evans, was no longer with us. But I decided to try and track him down.

If you looked at all the BaT auction documents it was pretty easy to trace him. This had been his home in 2005.

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Nice. It had sold recently though, but one way and another I found what might be a current number for him.

I phoned and introduced myself to an elderly gent. Gradually, with the help of his wife, whose memory I think was sharper, he warmed to the task. Clearly he had been very enthusiastic about the car - and once he learned it was for sale he remembered he had the original fuel tank and offered to give it to me should I decide to buy the car!

But he mentioned that the reason maybe why it was considered suspect is that it had once been offered for sale by a German ‘Count’. Now I was really hooked, sensing a tie in between a mysterious German ‘Count’ and the car’s possible history!
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

One way and another. By googling combinations of German ‘Counts’ and BMW’s and god knows what I suddenly hit upon what could be a link. Wiki again

“ In 1984, Christian Conzendorf-Mattner accompanied by Dennis Greenslade covered the route from Land's End to John o'Groats-there and back non-stop other than for fuel-in 31 hours 22 mins in a 1941 BMW 327/80. The record run was monitored by a team of journalists from a motoring magazine and is the current record for prewar classic cars end to end, non-stop, two drivers”

I figured this German guy was perhaps the one, what with classic BMW’s and something Phil Evans had hinted about him being ‘aristocratic’..

But how to tie it down?

And all the time, somewhere in California this intriguing 1935 BMW 319 that I had become engrossed in presumably remained unsold.

I watched the video of it driving over and over again( on BaT - you can watch it too now if you want) imagining myself driving it, like my father, and his brother Jack must have done in their 36 Frazer Nash BMW way back when.

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I had to get to the ‘Count’.

I found Dennis Greenslade easier than I thought I would. He’s on Facebook. I messaged him, and within a few hours we were speaking on the phone. What I was wanting to know was Christian Conzendorff- Mattner, his record holding co -driver a reliable man who’d represent a car honestly - or what?

Dennis Greenslade is one of life’s good guys. He runs major charity rally events, and we got on well. He thought Christian would have been a reliable sort of person, but sadly he’d lost touch with him. He thought he lived in the Torquay area.

Once you have the name, these things normally resolve themselves quickly.

Linking his name with Torquay, this came up

“Christian Friedrich Leberecht Mattner (Deceased)
CHRISTIAN FRIEDRICH LEBERECHT MATTNER (otherwise known as Christian Frederick Mattner, Christian Friedrich Von Conzendorff- Mattner and Christian Von Conzendorff-Mattner)(Deceased)

Pursuant to the Trustee Act 1925 any persons having a claim against or an interest in the Estate of the above named, late of …”


A dead end, excuse the inappropriate phrase. But really I knew my mind by this time. I’d done my own due diligence , and if possible I’d like to chance a go at buying the car
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

The car was still with the agents who consigned it onto Bring a Trailer - Mohr Imports in Monterey, where the really good pictures were shot presumably.

Not having bid in the auction I was nervous they wouldn’t talk to me - but at least I got this response

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I still only had the BaT pictures and auction material to go on but added to what I’d found out in the UK I thought it enough. But I didn’t want to shoot in the dark so asked what they were looking for.

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So - (and I knew I’d have to sell a car to afford this but here goes) I offered the asking price. Judging by other prices of the few that exist in the world it was still a very fair price even factoring in import costs . The good thing is that it was already registered with the DVLA.

It got a response

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I couldn’t believe it.
They explained to me that they’d speak to the seller over the weekend and come back to me with the next steps.

I didn’t hear from them for a few days.

And then..

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Nine One One
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by Nine One One »

Most people doing events in Cornwall know Dennis. He organises the Cape to Cape events and has raised over £1 million so for on behalf of Macmillan so far.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0c6f6ng
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

He was great, and he entirely understood my quest. In the car world you can make a lot of true acquaintances. I let him know what I’d eventually found out and he was grateful for that.
anglophone1
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by anglophone1 »

Knowing you Jeremy- I am sure it doesn’t stop here…………😏
Clive
West Cork, Ireland

RGruppe #814
1978 SC/1984 3.2 Outlaw -Jaffa 911
1973 914 - on Webers - historic rally car- Tango 914
1977 924 2.0 on Webers street legal race car - Martini 924
Flachbau -in progress
jeremyg
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by jeremyg »

A few weeks after hearing that the owner didn’t want to sell the Monterey BMW 319, I found I still had a growing desire to experience that type of motoring, and I went back over my past emails.

It was 9 years since I’d been given the name of the guy in Germany who’d supposedly restored my father’s car, but in frustration for getting nowhere, I googled his name again. And this came up.


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Translated it says

‘In grief and gratitude we say goodbye to the always passionate BMW veteran hobbyist, animal lover and music lover Wolfgang Schrunder’

He’d died on the 23rd January last year.

My father had bought the car together with his brother Jack. I let Tony my cousin know that I may have found our father’s car.

I decided to write a letter to the widow of the restorer, telling her I understood her husband had been restoring my father’s car, and if that was the case, would she be able to tell me what had happened to it, and was there ever any chance it may be for sale?

Just a few days later I had an email. Wolfgang’s widow had passed my letter on to the new owner.

He sent me what I at first thought was a curt response. In single lines (Google translated) it said

Video from the dashboard.

Pictures will follow

Wolfgang Scrundher bought the engine from England with the 319.

The original transmission is included

The three carburettors are included

Make a price proposal


I was pretty anxious - this was close to making an unbelievable dream come true, but if any negotiations went wrong it could all slip away. I feared the seller may not be realistic about the price as he obviously now knew it was my father’s car.

But then the pictures arrived and I could see the car had been faithfully restored - right hand drive, and in its original colours.



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I showed the full set of pictures to the specialists in the BMW Historic Owners Club. They agreed that with the German BMW Owners Club certificate, all looks to be right, chassis number and engine number correct etc

We negotiated a price.

It’s been painful process because a car has had to go. I’m afraid this is the last I saw of my lovely 911T restored by Matthew - TangerineT on here.

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But I’m sure you’ll understand. My father was very giving with his love of cars to me. He let me drive them all as I became old enough, and so buying back the one that I suspect probably excited him the most in his formative motoring years was a one time opportunity.

On Monday my cousin Tony and I drive out to Northern Germany, to meet the owner and talk all about its restoration and its more recent story. And then we’ll see it safely loaded on a transporter to begin its journey back to England. And of course then begins the next phase - to get the DVLA to issue it with its original number.

It’s a car with history.

This is it going up the Bo’ness hillclimb with its original owner at the wheel

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And this is the very ad that my father and his brother must have responded to when they bought it. It is the actual car.

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Slowly, more history is being unlocked

I’ll let you know how it goes in Germany, and beyond.
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by sladey »

Brilliant story, thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the next installment.
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by Hugo 356 »

Yeah, top story Jeremy. Great way to connect with your Dad and rare enough to open doors to all sorts of interesting events. I hope they give you the original reg number
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Lightweight_911
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Re: Frazer Nash/BMW 319

Post by Lightweight_911 »

.

Wonderful story & excellent (unexpected) outcome !!

Looking forward to seeing future developments.


.
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- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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