Oil analysis

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KS
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Oil analysis

Post by KS »

I decided that, as I'm carrying out some upgrades/changes to my 914's 2258cc engine, I'd get the oil analysed to see if all was OK or was the engine suffering from hard use on the hills. When I split the original 2056cc version, the number 3 rod bearing was toast and on the verge of complete failure. I had a lucky escape...

While the current spec engine is still together, I thought I'd get the oil analysed to see what was (or wasn't) wearing. The results were both interesting and very reassuring. I'd been using Millers 20/50 classic motorsport synthetic oil so opted to have the procedure carried out by Millers – it costs about £40. There are cheaper services around but I trusted Millers to do a good job. Once you pay on line, they mail you a sample bottle, which you fill and return to them using the prepaid packaging. They received my sample on on Tuesday and the results were e-mailed to me today (Friday). Pretty good considering the time of year.

This is the overall result shown in graph form, indicating contamination by ppm.

Image

Starting from the left, contamination levels by Cr (Chromium - typically from rings), Pb (Lead - bearings), Ni (Nickel – typically crank journals and camshaft lobes), Sn (Tin – bearing coatings) and B (Boron – oil additive) are all very low, showing negligible wear. Fe (Iron – cylinder walls, rings, cam gear etc) is slightly raised, but still low, while Mo (Molybdenum – plating used on piston rings) is highest. That doesn't surprise me, but I'll come back to that. Si (Silicon – seals and sealant) contamination is low, V (Vanadium – only really relevant in diesels apparently) is non existent, Al (Aluminium - pistons) is slightly raised but still considered low), Cu (Copper - bearings) is low while Na (Sodium – oil additive) is also very low.

Basically, the only components that have worn are piston rings, followed by cylinder walls and pistons, although the latter two are still well below a level to cause any concern. Part of the reason I am carrying out an upgrade is to reduce the amount of piston slap brought about by short rods with a long-stroke crank. This is what has led to the rings suffering and hence traces of iron and molybdenum in the oil.

The oil has also been contaminated by fuel (2.5%) – Millers told me this is common in a competition engine. As a consequence, oil viscosity at 100°C is 15.9 as opposed to the target 20w. However, their exact words were "The viscosity is acceptable with a 'caution' level of fuel dilution (this is normal in competition engines). Wear metals are at a satisfactory level."

So, all good and I can breath again knowing that the oil system is working just fine. I am convinced that the failure of the rod bearing in the original engine was caused by a lack of lubrication on start-up from cold. I also feel this vindicates my decision to install an Accusump, meaning I can pre-lube the engine at 20psi before turning the key.
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911hillclimber
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by 911hillclimber »

Interesting post on several counts:
Millars Classic oil: why did you choose that? Interesting choice over more obvious oils.
Petrol mixed in oil: how may miles do you think you have on this engine since the last change? Did Millars suggest frequency of changes at all?

Will your upgrades disturb the short engine?
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by jwhillracer »

That would have been a really interesting exercise on my old faithful 3.2 short stroke MFI engine that’s just retired after 30+ seasons of competition. There would have been more than one long bar showing on the graph!

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Re: Oil analysis

Post by misteralz »

Interesting. I used to do this as part of my job, but the oil charges were considerably larger than a few litres.
How and where did you sample from, and what sort of sample size did you take? I had literally years worth of results from different plant and after a while you could start to see all sorts of interesting things in the data - seasonal lag, a new person taking samples, obvious mis-samples...
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by misteralz »

FWIW, I wouldn't be concerned about anything in those results. I've seen motors with much worse wear metal results run for thousands of hours.
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by Nine One One »

911hillclimber wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:30 pm Interesting post on several counts:
Millars Classic oil: why did you choose that? Interesting choice over more obvious oils.
Website probably explains why? ............maybe ZDDP being one of the main reason?

DESCRIPTION:
A competition classic racing NANODRIVE triple ester engine oil uniquely engineered for classic high performance competition racing, with shear stable viscosity index improvers.

This high performance oil is the world’s finest SAE 20w50 fully synthetic multigrade engine oil, incorporating our unique nanotechnology ultra low friction additive system and is formulated with full Zinc Dithiophosphate (ZDDP) for ultimate protection.

Provides exceptional protection for vehicles requiring a 20w50 viscosity engine oil. Incorporating high quality fully synthetic base oils and modern innovative additive technology, combined with period viscometrics to provide optimum lubrication characteristics for engines manufactured in the immediate post war period through to the early 1980s.

What is NANODRIVE?

NANODRIVE is the award-winning Millers Oils motorsport brand that incorporates advanced nanoparticle technology for high performance applications, where stress on components is at its limit.

How does it work?

In engine oils, NANODRIVE technology combines advanced nanoparticles with triple ester chemistry to greatly reduce friction, protect against wear and maximise power.

APPLICATION:
Ideally suited to Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ferrari, Lotus and similar vehicles with high specific output engines, yet suitable for all discerning owners who want the best possible oil for their classic race engine.

Intended for use in arduous applications such as sustained fast road use, track and motorsport. Suitable for all classic motorsport including circuit racing, springs, hill climbing, drag racing, rallying.

Ideal for large capacity V8 engines in all forms of motorsport and suitable for operating at 125°C with peak temperatures up to 150°C.



FEATURES & BENEFITS:
High performance competition fully synthetic engine oil combines the highest quality and latest performance additives uniquely engineered for classic performance racing
Includes the award-winning NANODRIVE technology to greatly reduce friction, protect against wear and maximise power
Fully synthetic oil specially designed for classic engines and is compatible with older seal types and technology to maintain oil pressure and reduce oil consumption
Our latest additive package technology incorporates high levels of ZDDP* additive for optimum wear protection
Reduces overall running costs through lower fuel consumption and longer component life
The coefficient of friction reduces rapidly as the engine temperature rises, maximising fuel economy and reducing emissions accordingly
Reduces friction by up to 63% and wear by up to 38%, compared to other synthetic-based non-NANODRIVE 20w-50 grades
* ZDDP - Zinc Dithiophosphate anti-wear additive

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/millers ... 20w-50.pdf
911hillclimber
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by 911hillclimber »

Reads well, my last Fully Synthetic oil in an old 2.4 was not good, Mobil 1 leaked like mad.
I have used Semi Synthetic for decades in my 3.2 911 hillclimb car and the Impreza (370 bhp) and the Lola (320 bhp).

I do not know anyone using the Millars oil, hence the interest.

Thanks for the details.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by christine »

Shouldn't Si be for silicon ? Pistons are cast /forged from high silicon aluminium ..It casts beautifully ,with low expansion . Silicone is rubber
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KS
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by KS »

This is from Millers:
Image

For anyone interested in the service, here is the link: https://www.millersoils.co.uk/oil-analysis/
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KS
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by KS »

Nine One One wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:04 pm
911hillclimber wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:30 pm Interesting post on several counts:
Millars Classic oil: why did you choose that? Interesting choice over more obvious oils.
Website probably explains why? ............maybe ZDDP being one of the main reason?
Indeed, that was a major reason - 'old' engines like this need all the help they can get in that department...
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911hillclimber
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by 911hillclimber »

Thank you Keith.
Our engine designs are very old now.
I was always of the belief that the early air cooled 911 engines used high volume flow/low pressure to lube and cool the components, both my 3.2's have low oil pressure at tick over/hot, the 911 especially with about 130K miles on the original factory build, still works well but has had Shell 20/50 Semi changes every year from 60k miles when I got the engine. It has never leaked and has only had semi synthetic in my ownership (as demanded by Bob Watson).

The Lola's 3.2 is fresh and has strong pressure all revs and same oil.

If there is a better oil for hillclimb conditions always want to know!

Mind you, when a run up Shelsley Walsh is 30 seconds and 5 gear changes, not sure what damage can be inflicted.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
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KS
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by KS »

The big thing for me is that my engine is a pushrod design, so follower/cam lobe wear can be a problem, hence the desire for an oil with plenty of zinc.

In my drag race days, I used to use Valvoline 20/50 mineral race oil with success, but changed rod bearings every three or four meetings, and mains twice a season. Turbocharged VW race engines were hard on bearings... I was approached by Torco Oils, offering me their new fully-synthetic race oil. I was sceptical to begin with but they said to try it. After the first meeting, I pulled the rod bearings apart and they were perfect, then after three or four meetings, I split the bottom end and the mains were perfect, too. In the end, I ran the same set of mains for two full seasons (approximately 100-120 passes) and only changed them when I freshened up the engine ready for sale. The rod bearings I changed once a season, only as a precaution, not because they needed it. I was convinced...
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by neilbardsley »

Interestingly, or perhaps not, when I discussed having some oil analysis done at Goodwood with Motul they also talked about petrol getting into the oil and lowering the weight of the oil.

Their take was that when cold some petrol could get pass the rings. This is why they recommend a heavier oil.

I guess on a hill climb car this would be more likely to happen?

Ps I think synthetic oil is vastly superior to mineral oil.

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Oil analysis

Post by hot66 »

I’ve done about 3 of these on recent oil changes on my S . Always interesting and in my case always highlights the same result of excessive fuel dilution. … which with mfi I always expect anyway
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Re: Oil analysis

Post by 911hillclimber »

Several at hillclimbs over the years have said if the petrol smell is obvious there is a problem in the oil, otherwise all is well.
Not sure I trust that but I so a smell test often.....

We could all get paranoid about these things.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
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