DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

rhd racer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:22 pm You can do that on the DVLA tax checker - just need the reg number and vehicle model. Most of my old cars are sadly no longer….

SORN means untaxed. It's illegal to tax a vehicle without insurance, so I'm trying to find out if my existing insurance (laid-up) is any good before I apply for tax.

Nine One One wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:27 pm You can check insurance status on the ‘Ask MID’ data base for any vehicle.

https://ownvehicle.askmid.com

I've just checked my insurance status using that link^^, and it says that my car is showing as insured on the MID database but it doesn't say whether it has RFL or not.

So, does it mean I can cancel my SORN by taxing the car online now?

Maybe call your insurance company and ask if laid-up is correct to tax it?
Doesn't sound right though, laid-up insurance for a car taxed for the road?
I think taxing it cancels the SORN status, but try it and see if the data base removes the sorn because the car is now taxed so could be on the road the same day.

I would be frankly amazed if you can tax a car for the road on laid up insurance (even if your intentions are not to take in the road). However, it is surprising that it appears on that register at all, let alone without the restriction in cover being noted.

Nine One One wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:27 pm You can check insurance status on the ‘Ask MID’ data base for any vehicle.

Mine has laid up insurance by Hagerty and it is not showing on the data base, if yours is, perhaps your cover is basic Third Party, hence why it is showing as insured? If you go on line and try and tax it, on the DVLA website, it will soon let you know whether or not that insurance is sufficient to tax it with. If it is it will all go through, if not it will say it is not insured.

911hillclimber wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:59 am Maybe call your insurance company

Will do.

Nine One One wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:04 am perhaps your cover is basic Third Party

If it is, I didn't know. That's a bonus (so I don't have to upgrade my insurance )

Back on the DVLA, the reality is, as usual, rather mundane. I received helpful input from representatives of Motorsport UK. It seems a small number of clear and obvious errors, to use football terminology, may have occurred. There is dialogue on the issue and the classic movement's interests are being represented, as I understand it, by the Historic and Classic Vehicle Alliance. If you want to have a constructive input, maybe join, or lobby, that organisation. Otherwise, for most of us, it's a case of keeping calm and carrying on.

https://www.hcva.co.uk/210/the-hcva-cam ... istrations

I personally wasn't aware of the HCVA, which can be taken in one of two ways: I don't have my finger on the pulse or, alternatively, they haven't done a very good job of promoting themselves and their cause. It does appear that it is an association that is very industry-centric, which is fine, but I feel a little uneasy as trade-biased associations tend more to look after the interests of their members rather than enthusiasts as a whole. Having said that, absolutely any dialogue which can be opened with DVLA should be welcomed. It doesn't appear to show interest in modified cars, hot rods, road-going competition cars, etc, concentrating solely on matters relating to 'classics'. This has been the case with the FBHVC, too.

This is the reply from my MP, see in BOLD.

It states the correct info, but also has the contradiction i posted here pages ago.

If the vehicle (classic or otherwise) is Modified/rebuilt etc then it has to go to IVA/Q plate. The word 'Rebuilt' is key here, a welded and fixed old car falls under IVA even if restored to factory spec.

The contradictory passage is the '10 Year Rule'

It does NOT state if the vehicle is over 10 years old, no Approval is required IF MODIFIED/REBUILT OR EVEN FACTORY FRESH.

Make of it what you will.

The link given is what I read days ago, but well worth reading carefully.

( Just a thought; if the DVLA remove a car's reg and as the car has to have a Q plate, can the DVLA sell that original nice plate to the public?)



Dear Graham,

Thank you for your email.

Vehicle approval is designed to ensure that specific classes of vehicles have been designed and constructed to modern safety and environmental standards and helps make sure that they are safe on the road and reduce environmental impact.

It is necessary to apply for vehicle approval if building a vehicle; rebuilding a vehicle; radically altering a vehicle; reconstructing a classic vehicle and/or importing a vehicle. It is not necessary to seek vehicle approval for cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old.

Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) is the UK's national approval scheme for vehicles and trailers imported, assembled or manufactured in very small numbers or as individual vehicles such as amateur built cars. It is a means of checking that vehicles broadly meet the technical requirements laid out in European legislation, ensuring that they have been designed and constructed to modern safety and environmental standards.

The IVA scheme is composed of two tiers, basic and normal. Basic IVA involves a visual inspection and other tests to make sure the vehicle meets the necessary standard and does not normally require any documentary evidence. Normal IVA involves a more detailed inspection and documentary evidence.

The DVSA has collated forms and guidance relating to the IVA. This can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... d-guidance

I would be happy to pass your specific concerns regarding minor modifications of classic cars on to the Department for Transport and let you know of their response.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Sir Gavin Williamson

Great that he took time to reply. These two sentences seem contradictory: It is necessary to apply for vehicle approval if building a vehicle; rebuilding a vehicle; radically altering a vehicle; reconstructing a classic vehicle and/or importing a vehicle. It is not necessary to seek vehicle approval for cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old.

A little confusing there... So you'd need to seek approval if your reconstruct a classic – but you don't need to seek approval if the vehicle's over 10 years old.

.

The category 'reconstructing a classic' is that which is/should specifically be used for someone building an accurate/authentic ('toolroom' ?) replica of a classic - usually a sportscar - such as Lotus Seven/Eleven, Jaguar D-Type, Ferrari 250 GTO, etc where parts (either original or accurate repro) come from numerous different sources so that the finished car doesn't have an existing identity - hence the need for an IVA in order to register it.

.

.

These cars do not get a Q plate when they pass the IVA test ...

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Ahah! Cheers Andy. 'Re-creating' would be more accurate than 'reconstructing', which implies building it up from a stripped-down original.

Apparently this exact same response has been fired off to people by other MPs over recent years, suggesting there is a template floating around to deal with troublesome constituents... Like Graham! :-D

And what about that RS2000? Was it imported recently and applying for V5 for the first time?

I suspect there's a back story to that, but DVLA 'scouts' do scour the likes of Facebook, etc, and modified Escorts are one of their top targets at present...

As I have said before, rules should not be ambiguous, but black and white, simple and clear otherwise things are interpreted, and 'shades of grey ' appear.

In this sorry lot it should be clear, for example:

Retore a vehicle/modify etc = IVA IF under 10 years old.
If over 10 years old no need for approvals to be met for vehicles inc restored/modified etc.

Now, that would clear a lot of this confusion.

As the words are now,
A vehicle is over 10 years old. No need to IVA etc no matter what has been done.