The XK
Moderator: Bootsy
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- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
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Re: The XK
Templates….oh yes….naturally…...by request, the opening is now 1mm bigger than it was originally….to allow for a little thicker build up of paint around the inside of the apertures….this picture shows the chrome surrounds in place to prove it…
1974 2.7 Carrera
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
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- DDK rules my life!
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- Location: A Southern Northerner
Re: The XK
Having paid a visit to Carter Towers last Friday, I can confirm that this is going to be stunning. Enjoy the updates as and when JP posts them
2006 RHD 997 Carrera (but DDK remains in my heart - also now no longer)
1972 LHD 2.4T with '73 2.4T CIS motor - gone to a new DDK home
1994 RHD 993 Carrera - gone!
1968 LHD 911L - was the Wife's but now in new hands
#1252
1972 LHD 2.4T with '73 2.4T CIS motor - gone to a new DDK home
1994 RHD 993 Carrera - gone!
1968 LHD 911L - was the Wife's but now in new hands
#1252
- Nige
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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- Location: Denby, Derbyshire
Re: The XK
Yup, Barry's work is always off the scale.
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- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
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Re: The XK
Part 13
The Metal Meister …part 4
Learn as you proceed
Removal of the rear wings whilst not straightforward…was required…however unlike a 911 which are purely bolted at the front, in the case of a 120 they are ultimately brazed in a few places to assist alignment and maintain their position
They are also bolted from underneath with a curious Whitworth 1/2” headed bolt….with a head that varies from 12mm….1/2”….and 13mm…not much fun when they all need heat to loosen them…whilst upside down and being showered with dried roads debris…..ah..the joys of old cars…
And if that wasn’t enough…unbeknown to both of us, given the gentle spread and settlement of the car over its 70 years they had begun to contribute towards the alignment and rigidity of the central body tub….but that role was only something we realised later…..
Meanwhile….we carried on …with the inevitable rot repairs to the wings, along their top edge…and reinstatement of metal where they had been crudely cut by the factory to get them to fit easily in the first place…cue the customary and elegantly made repair sections
Then onto the roof edge….…..
….and re-fit the wings.…..?
Hymm…this doesn’t look right….
That was when we realised something was afoot….cue the porter power tools and push the slumped roof and B panel assembly back into place….fortunately, although the beautifully crafted multi layered edge of roof profiles had been made, they had yet to be fitted…so the car could be eased back into shape and then they were added
…thats better….
This whole episode lead to us taking the decision to make a meaningful improvement to the strength and contribution of both the floor and bulkhead structures….
This is where we started….
Back in the day the original first release of roadster cars were not only aluminium bodied…but had full floor panels made from 3/8” birch plywood….as assembly moved into a proper production process the floors were amended to largely steel…with some plywood access covers….but notably these steel floor panels remained as a pair of bolt in items…so the whole of the floor is bolted….transmission tunnel included…which means a tremendous loss of potential stiffness in the shell
Also….
All XK120’s originally had a pair of 6v batteries, located in purpose made compartmented located behind the seats, which whilst good for weight distribution compromise the storage potential for the car, so we now had a perfect opportunity to make a stronger and stiffer shell….firstly using a single AGM battery in the passenger footwell, we could develop a better storage focussed, but fundamentally a far stronger design of the rear bulkhead…..so an almost chance discovery of the somewhat flexible rear wing issue lead to building a purpose designed and much stiffer integrated solution that would resolve many issues in a single design….included amongst them an invisible location of inertia seat belts
So….first removal…..
And fabrication….
And then the belts….
All I can say is the difference in stiffness was most noticeable …the floors acting in unison with the transmission tunnel which was then linked to a far stronger rear bulkhead made a fundamental change in the way the shell (didn’t) move
And as a final gesture, the original 1/4” flat bar sweat runner reinforcement plates were replaced with a lighter and stiffer steel channel with bespoke inserts, all welded to the floor pans to provide additional stiffness…..upstand reinforcements being part of an overall plan to be adding generous floor insulation and carpet, which will finish flush with the top of the channel sections
Will it change the way the car drives…I have no idea…but fundamentally it has to be better
Thanks for looking…next update should be a little quicker….
The Metal Meister …part 4
Learn as you proceed
Removal of the rear wings whilst not straightforward…was required…however unlike a 911 which are purely bolted at the front, in the case of a 120 they are ultimately brazed in a few places to assist alignment and maintain their position
They are also bolted from underneath with a curious Whitworth 1/2” headed bolt….with a head that varies from 12mm….1/2”….and 13mm…not much fun when they all need heat to loosen them…whilst upside down and being showered with dried roads debris…..ah..the joys of old cars…
And if that wasn’t enough…unbeknown to both of us, given the gentle spread and settlement of the car over its 70 years they had begun to contribute towards the alignment and rigidity of the central body tub….but that role was only something we realised later…..
Meanwhile….we carried on …with the inevitable rot repairs to the wings, along their top edge…and reinstatement of metal where they had been crudely cut by the factory to get them to fit easily in the first place…cue the customary and elegantly made repair sections
Then onto the roof edge….…..
….and re-fit the wings.…..?
Hymm…this doesn’t look right….
That was when we realised something was afoot….cue the porter power tools and push the slumped roof and B panel assembly back into place….fortunately, although the beautifully crafted multi layered edge of roof profiles had been made, they had yet to be fitted…so the car could be eased back into shape and then they were added
…thats better….
This whole episode lead to us taking the decision to make a meaningful improvement to the strength and contribution of both the floor and bulkhead structures….
This is where we started….
Back in the day the original first release of roadster cars were not only aluminium bodied…but had full floor panels made from 3/8” birch plywood….as assembly moved into a proper production process the floors were amended to largely steel…with some plywood access covers….but notably these steel floor panels remained as a pair of bolt in items…so the whole of the floor is bolted….transmission tunnel included…which means a tremendous loss of potential stiffness in the shell
Also….
All XK120’s originally had a pair of 6v batteries, located in purpose made compartmented located behind the seats, which whilst good for weight distribution compromise the storage potential for the car, so we now had a perfect opportunity to make a stronger and stiffer shell….firstly using a single AGM battery in the passenger footwell, we could develop a better storage focussed, but fundamentally a far stronger design of the rear bulkhead…..so an almost chance discovery of the somewhat flexible rear wing issue lead to building a purpose designed and much stiffer integrated solution that would resolve many issues in a single design….included amongst them an invisible location of inertia seat belts
So….first removal…..
And fabrication….
And then the belts….
All I can say is the difference in stiffness was most noticeable …the floors acting in unison with the transmission tunnel which was then linked to a far stronger rear bulkhead made a fundamental change in the way the shell (didn’t) move
And as a final gesture, the original 1/4” flat bar sweat runner reinforcement plates were replaced with a lighter and stiffer steel channel with bespoke inserts, all welded to the floor pans to provide additional stiffness…..upstand reinforcements being part of an overall plan to be adding generous floor insulation and carpet, which will finish flush with the top of the channel sections
Will it change the way the car drives…I have no idea…but fundamentally it has to be better
Thanks for looking…next update should be a little quicker….
1974 2.7 Carrera
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 18956
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
- Location: West Midlands
Re: The XK
Fabulous as ever, a real treat.
Guess much of these cars were designed by intuition and experience while on the drawing board and went to production with a hint of 'I hope this will be OK'.
Mods here where needed and so worth it!
Great progress.
Makes you wonder what Barry has for breakfast...
Guess much of these cars were designed by intuition and experience while on the drawing board and went to production with a hint of 'I hope this will be OK'.
Mods here where needed and so worth it!
Great progress.
Makes you wonder what Barry has for breakfast...
Last edited by 911hillclimber on Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
- PeterK
- DDK rules my life!
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
- Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Re: The XK
That Barry is not too shabby at metalwork, is he
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
- inaglasshouse
- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
- Posts: 2427
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 pm
- Location: Surrey, UK
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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- Location: Nottingham, UK
Re: The XK
Fantastic update JP - thanks for sharing - some really lovely work there
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
Re: The XK
Love this part of your restos JP
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
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- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:54 pm
- Location: london/surrey
Re: The XK
Part 14
The Metal Meister …part 5
Moving backwards……
Which we were doing systematically….from front to rear….so now it was onto the “winglets”….the slim panels between wings and boot….aptly named by Barry
Somewhat rusty….and with a truly dreadful junction to the real inner wings…involving 3 layers of metal…we had a situation to resolve…but first there was also the small matter of the boot edge trim profile which had largely disappeared….requiring repairs to the rear of the inner wings…..cue the classic Barry kit of parts….and bespoke tools to form the same…..
So….whilst it would have been lovely to clean up and repair…truth was it was impossible to remove all rust unless we cut them off….
And whilst that might sound a trifle drastic…it actually was the logical thing to do…..as there is a moment in the life of a panel that needs both repairs and modifications that to replace is simpler than to repair….but why modifications you may ask….
3 reasons, that start with the concept of the car…
Early on in the stripping of the car I started on the inevitable retail therapy…..the pleasure in spending money on new parts…..and what a wonderful thing that is…made all the more enjoyable by talking g with specialists that can help you in deciding what to buy……at which time I should introduce Guy Broad and Coventry Auto Components
Guy Broad is run by the man himself…who has modified and raced XK’s for many years…..Coventry Auto Spares is run by Stuart Macneill, a self confessed Jaguar anorak…a truly friendly, helpful and decent Brummie to boot and someone who has made a serious attempt to engage with local industries and suppliers to manufacture better made replacement parts
The immediate question when I first called round to Guy was…”what’s your concept for the car…”….”you want to modify it….sounds good….what are you trying to achieve….once you have an idea of where you want to get to….we can work out how we do it….”
….and so the “Gentleman racer” was born…..a car that would be essentially stock, but devoid of all superfluous exterior brightwork….a decently tuned engine ….slightly stiffer suspension…better brakes…slightly wider tyres, still with a full interior…but modified to be less walnut golf club….a visible hint of racing with the Monza fuel filler cap and subtle refinements to bodywork details but with a serious and hidden approach to stiffening the body shell
One of the earliest 120’s LWK 707, was equipped with such a thing….chiefly as this was the car that ran continuously at a minimum of 100mph for 7 days and nights….almost 17,000 miles being covered…
Plus subsequent C types had a more recessed fitment…more to our liking
So with the need for a Monza filler we had to remove the completely rusted original filler assembly….but I also wanted to change the rear light pods….
In the early days of the 120 the rear light pods were painted body colour as can be seen on LWK 707 quite why they were a separate cast aluminium item I do not know….after a short time they were changed to a chrome finish….probably to match the original roadster cars which had chromed front indicator units…but curiously enough once the coupe was introduced, the front indicator units became body colour and integrated into the general bodywork…..quite why this did not extend to the rear of the car is a mystery….any way….body colour was the inspiration and a more flowing design taking inspiration from the fronts was what I wanted as the original aluminium lumps are far from sophisticated
So first I made a few mock ups and checked the right height for mounting….which we kept to original in the end
You can see here how lumpen the originals are…
Final choice…
And in metal….
and once having done this we just had to refine the bonnet badge….just because we could….the aesthetic of the half recessed needed to be applied throughout wherever possible
First a trial….
Then the real thing….
Such a simple and elegant solution to creating a recess….but you need years of experience to know how to come up with such things…..
So….what shall we do next……?
The Metal Meister …part 5
Moving backwards……
Which we were doing systematically….from front to rear….so now it was onto the “winglets”….the slim panels between wings and boot….aptly named by Barry
Somewhat rusty….and with a truly dreadful junction to the real inner wings…involving 3 layers of metal…we had a situation to resolve…but first there was also the small matter of the boot edge trim profile which had largely disappeared….requiring repairs to the rear of the inner wings…..cue the classic Barry kit of parts….and bespoke tools to form the same…..
So….whilst it would have been lovely to clean up and repair…truth was it was impossible to remove all rust unless we cut them off….
And whilst that might sound a trifle drastic…it actually was the logical thing to do…..as there is a moment in the life of a panel that needs both repairs and modifications that to replace is simpler than to repair….but why modifications you may ask….
3 reasons, that start with the concept of the car…
Early on in the stripping of the car I started on the inevitable retail therapy…..the pleasure in spending money on new parts…..and what a wonderful thing that is…made all the more enjoyable by talking g with specialists that can help you in deciding what to buy……at which time I should introduce Guy Broad and Coventry Auto Components
Guy Broad is run by the man himself…who has modified and raced XK’s for many years…..Coventry Auto Spares is run by Stuart Macneill, a self confessed Jaguar anorak…a truly friendly, helpful and decent Brummie to boot and someone who has made a serious attempt to engage with local industries and suppliers to manufacture better made replacement parts
The immediate question when I first called round to Guy was…”what’s your concept for the car…”….”you want to modify it….sounds good….what are you trying to achieve….once you have an idea of where you want to get to….we can work out how we do it….”
….and so the “Gentleman racer” was born…..a car that would be essentially stock, but devoid of all superfluous exterior brightwork….a decently tuned engine ….slightly stiffer suspension…better brakes…slightly wider tyres, still with a full interior…but modified to be less walnut golf club….a visible hint of racing with the Monza fuel filler cap and subtle refinements to bodywork details but with a serious and hidden approach to stiffening the body shell
One of the earliest 120’s LWK 707, was equipped with such a thing….chiefly as this was the car that ran continuously at a minimum of 100mph for 7 days and nights….almost 17,000 miles being covered…
Plus subsequent C types had a more recessed fitment…more to our liking
So with the need for a Monza filler we had to remove the completely rusted original filler assembly….but I also wanted to change the rear light pods….
In the early days of the 120 the rear light pods were painted body colour as can be seen on LWK 707 quite why they were a separate cast aluminium item I do not know….after a short time they were changed to a chrome finish….probably to match the original roadster cars which had chromed front indicator units…but curiously enough once the coupe was introduced, the front indicator units became body colour and integrated into the general bodywork…..quite why this did not extend to the rear of the car is a mystery….any way….body colour was the inspiration and a more flowing design taking inspiration from the fronts was what I wanted as the original aluminium lumps are far from sophisticated
So first I made a few mock ups and checked the right height for mounting….which we kept to original in the end
You can see here how lumpen the originals are…
Final choice…
And in metal….
and once having done this we just had to refine the bonnet badge….just because we could….the aesthetic of the half recessed needed to be applied throughout wherever possible
First a trial….
Then the real thing….
Such a simple and elegant solution to creating a recess….but you need years of experience to know how to come up with such things…..
So….what shall we do next……?
1974 2.7 Carrera
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
-
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 18956
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
- Location: West Midlands
Re: The XK
My word, no more superlative's left to express the work.
I presume this adventure is also in the world of the Jaguar enthusiasts?
What a treat this thread is.
I presume this adventure is also in the world of the Jaguar enthusiasts?
What a treat this thread is.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
-
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 8771
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:08 pm
- Location: Nottingham, UK
Re: The XK
Fantastic read and as usual great work by Barry
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
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- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:54 pm
- Location: london/surrey
Re: The XK
Hi Graham
Actually this is the only forum I have posted on….not sure if a modified 120 is so acceptable to the Jaguar community….maybe I will investigate one day….this forum is much more open minded….
Actually this is the only forum I have posted on….not sure if a modified 120 is so acceptable to the Jaguar community….maybe I will investigate one day….this forum is much more open minded….
1974 2.7 Carrera
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
- inaglasshouse
- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
- Posts: 2427
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 pm
- Location: Surrey, UK
Re: The XK
Of course!
Madness. I mean that as a compliment.
Thanks for posting.
R