Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

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neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

A very interesting session with Tim & Ben Cross. There were 4 of us taking turns. I think some of the instruction had started to settle in by the last session. It was very useful to have someone next to you and giving instant feedback. I think I was finding the limits of Tim's mx5.

I need to do a race somewhere before I forget it all

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neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

I learnt something useful for other DDKs too. After a track session/drive that heats up the brakes don't put the handbrake on when you park the car. This might warp the discs, or drum, by having the hot pads only in one place. Leave the handbrake off and car in gear. Maybe not so important for early 90x cars because of the separate parking drum brake but still useful

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neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

Well it's been a trial. Took my 356 to have the geometry looked at. On the way I ran out of petrol and the car stopped before I could get it into reserve. It wouldn't restart and, of course, I had brought my jump leads. Mrs B drove back to the house to get them but a series one landie stopped to help. He wasn't willing to let me jump start from his battery but would pull start me. I wasn't insistent enough that he shouldn't attach to the bumper bracket and unfortunately the bumper was damaged.

Then within 5 mins of having the car they had found play in the steering box. which makes sense from the way it feels when driving. I had checked, myself, for play but clearly not well enough. I just called them and also the camber regulator I put on is lifting one wheel.

3 steps back!

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911hillclimber
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by 911hillclimber »

Imho, not at all.
Car now with people to sort the chassis out, a sound investment.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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Hugo 356
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by Hugo 356 »

A series of tests from the Porsche Gods? Keep the Faith Neil! Hope you get it sorted satisfactorally
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anglophone1
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by anglophone1 »

You need front and rear tow hooks for hillclimbing Neil- get them on!,
I have webbing straps front and back.
You can easily find a good spot to bolt them in.
neilbardsley wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:30 pm Well it's been a trial. Took my 356 to have the geometry looked at. On the way I ran out of petrol and the car stopped before I could get it into reserve. It wouldn't restart and, of course, I had brought my jump leads. Mrs B drove back to the house to get them but a series one landie stopped to help. He wasn't willing to let me jump start from his battery but would pull start me. I wasn't insistent enough that he shouldn't attach to the bumper bracket and unfortunately the bumper was damaged.

Then within 5 mins of having the car they had found play in the steering box. which makes sense from the way it feels when driving. I had checked, myself, for play but clearly not well enough. I just called them and also the camber regulator I put on is lifting one wheel.

3 steps back!

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Clive
West Cork, Ireland

RGruppe #814
1978 SC/1984 3.2 Outlaw -Jaffa 911
1973 914 - on Webers - historic rally car- Tango 914
1977 924 2.0 on Webers street legal race car - Martini 924
Flachbau -in progress
neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

Yes I have them but normally only fit when I race

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neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

I just watched the video and tried to record the course. At least 15 turns. I had better watch a lot moreImage

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911hillclimber
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by 911hillclimber »

How will you remember all that Neil?!

A hill climb is just a country road where you know nobody else is coming the other way, you are not in a NORMA M20.

However, 10/10 for research!
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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anglophone1
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by anglophone1 »

911hillclimber wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:27 pm How will you remember all that Neil?!

A hill climb is just a country road where you know nobody else is coming the other way, you are not in a NORMA M20.

However, 10/10 for research!
Excellent advice Graham - i hope to do my first real event [not school] later in the year- i will try to remember this........................
C
Clive
West Cork, Ireland

RGruppe #814
1978 SC/1984 3.2 Outlaw -Jaffa 911
1973 914 - on Webers - historic rally car- Tango 914
1977 924 2.0 on Webers street legal race car - Martini 924
Flachbau -in progress
911hillclimber
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by 911hillclimber »

Most hills (in the UK) you can see the next bend coming and in 'normal cars' like Neils there is lots of time to plan the approach.

The hill events have practice runs, usually 2, and if you make the time, you can walk the hill to suss it out. On this French hill, it is too long to walk!
The walk up is most important if the hill is new to you.
Slowly catch your monkey on the practice runs, give it death (within your talent/nerves) on the race runs.

Given same conditions, you will be faster next time (etc).

I started hill climbs in my 911 in 1991 and I still follow this approach even though I have raced in anger at the same venues in my Championship and a few beyond.
It get you in the 'zone'.

Neil has done a bit already and has prepared himself and the car well I think, I am in envy of what he is going to do (Keith also). A wonderful experience!
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

I heard back from the place setting it up today. They are sorting the steering box and had an idea for adjustable shocks that I could stiffen up for events but they will not be ready before the event so just a set up this time

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neilbardsley
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by neilbardsley »

Saint Goeuno Master Hill Climb

Often our travels in the 356 become an adventure.  The last Northern Europe trip saw me recharging the battery every hotel stop when the (rebuilt) generator failed between Germany and Denmark (on boarding a ferry).  A previous Le Mans trip had me jack up the car after a nice lunch, using the factory jack (never again), to replace the starter relay fuse.

This time I was determined to do better but 5 days before our departure I was stuck, in the dark, at the roadside calling for a recovery and praying for a miracle.

I bought my first Porsche (912) in late 2000s.  It was unfortunately stolen but that was just be beginning so I soon found myself calling Bob Camp/bell to enquire about a 1956 A Coupe he had advertised as good for touring.  It arrived 2 months later.  Started first time and I drove it home.  The only hiccup was having to read the manual, at a service station, to find out that I needed to press the gear stick down to get into reverse.

This car was previously owned by Ray, from Southern CA, who commuted in this car for about 40 years.  Ray taught Mechanics at LA College so it was well looked after.  After Ray retired, and felt his days of wrenching on a car were over, he asked some of the local masters, Jacks Staggs etc, to do a mechanical restoration on the car.  Now it was in the hands of a me, a naïve Computing/Finance worker, who had only just learnt how to change oil and set points!  I still can’t believe that soon after getting the car we drove to Stuttgart, and had no issues, armed only a 36mm spanner, screwdriver, a few fuses and a fan belt.   My list of spares, and tools, is now much longer.

Early 2023 a friend, Keith Sume, announced he was taking his 914 to a hill climb in Brittany, France.  I contacted the organiser and managed to get the last place available.  In the Bardsley household all road trips must, must have activities away from car (Mrs B rule #1).  Brittany, in north west French, was an area we had only driven through and wanted to explore more.  It’s almost considered a separate country and had its own language.  There are many, many places to visit.  Mont St Michael, Utah Beach, Dinan, St Malo etc, etc.

I’ve done a few UK climbs but after viewing this course runs on YouTube a mild panic set in.  2 miles long with 12(?) turns.  Not a course  I can learn in a few runs.

Preparation started in earnst once my entry was confirmed.  First deal with the weak link : me.  I enrolled for some 1-1 tutition at my local circuit.  This helped much more than the few training days I had done because I had an experienced racer sitting next to me giving instant correction. 

Next, I set about correcting the problems from the last road trip and improving the car.  LED headlights installed (I wish I done this years before what a difference).  I fitted, Vic’s camber regulator, and the was car sent away to a Formula Vee specialist to have it’s geometry checked/configured.  I must add that the biggest improve I think I’ve made to this car while owning it is the additional of Fred Winterburn’s 6v CDI unit.  The car starts, and runs, better.  Except then you don’t correctly crimp in the power wire to the unit (see above) and a year later it leaves you sitting in the dark waiting 5 hours to get recovered the last 10 miles to home.  Fred is explicit in his instructions about soldering or using airplane standard crimps.  I learnt the hard way.

Hill climbing / Sprint racing in the UK is the most accessible motorsport.  Buy a licence for £75, attach front/end tow points (I choose to use the bummer brackets bolts) £30, put two stickers on the car £10, fit a timing bar (home made using sheet metal), buy a helmet £250, gloves £50 and race suit £250 then you can race.  If you want to try before committing then join a club (£30 a year for my club) turn up at a club practice day and they will lend you the gear.

The other competitors are often the best part of the event.  I turned up at my first event without a timing bar or race numbers and my race suit zip broke on the way to start line.  The paddock, and organisers, soon had this muppet on the start line, reving my Pellow built engine, waiting for the green light.

You can’t visit France without talking about food or drink.  What a great source social media is for getting recommendations. In Brittany cider is the locals drink and well worth a try.  French restaurants are a little different from the UK as the quality goes up the range of menu choices decrease.  Thankfully, better quality food/drink costs less than in the UK. 

The trip to Saint Goeuno passed without incident, via the overnight ferry from Portsmouth to  Caen, via stops in Saint Malo and Dinan for the first good meal of the trip.  We took a boat trip from Dinan on the canal and learn that the nasty English ships were blocking the channel meant that Napoleon had this canal built so the French could get access to the sea.  We also that when canal boats were horse draw wives had to pull the boat if the horse died!  Mrs B felt there hadn’t been much social progress since then.

The arrived in time for the first meal which was at the village hall (which had been built from the proceeds of the Hill Climb) to find that a musical festival was running in parallel with the Hill Climb and entry was included.

The next day sign on started at 2pm with the diver's briefing at 5pm.  All without incident but there is always a nervous pause between handing the organiser your entrance fee and the scrutineers passing the car.

 

Friday evening was a bit more lively with a local drumming group and a more interesting band on the main stage.  Generally, I would have to say the music was mostly aimed at teens and the main acts were a bit pop.  https://www.festival-bretagne.fr/event/ ... l-dejante/

 

The next day racing start.  It was a good 2-3 miles to the start line then 2 miles up the hill then another 1/2 mile back to the paddock.  We we pre gridded in order just outside then paddock.  We could be held in this pre grid from 5-20mins then held again at the bottom of the hill waiting for previous class to clear the start.  Unfortunately, because of crashes, one run took 90 mins to get back to the paddock.  Another challenge was that to fit all the runs in the car were set off at 30 second intervals.  I asked for a 60 second gap because I, rightly, suspect that I could be passed by the car behind me.

 

The first run was a blur and I was rather happy to get through in one piece.  I found myself in 2nd from last place ; 2min38sec.  I had fully expected to be last by a good margin.  I set myself the target of getting under 2:30 and staying ahead of the Frazer Nash (next to me in the paddock).  I was really struggling to get into 3rd gear and get the car to continue to accelerate.  I decided that I wouldn't change down as much into 2nd and try to use the smoother driving to retain speed. This didn't work.  All I accomplished during the next run was going 5 seconds slower.  There was no correlation between the time for the run and how I thought my run had gone.  Thankfully improved during the weekend I started to cluster times closer together (with a downward slope).  

 

I started to settle into a routine.  The 3rd run of a day was my quickest run by 1.5 seconds but I was clearly in last place.  Just me battling the stop watch.  

 

The music on Saturday evening was the best of the weekend. 

 

Sunday was a repeat of Saturday and I was honestly relieved to post my quickest run of the weekend on my final run (no where near < 2:34) and not to have damaged the car. 

We decided to give the music, and communal food, a miss.  We headed to the Atlantic coast, just north of Saint-Brieuc, for a wander and better food.  

 

The car continued to perform very well but given the thrashing I had given it up the hill I decided to drive it very gently.  I also pondered about what to do with the car next.  Could I make it quicker for events like this?  Change gear ratios, lose some weight and build a more powerful engine but at what cost?  It would be horrid to drive in slow traffic.  What would I get from this considerable expenditure?  Be 3rd last, rather than dead last,  in my class?  No I think our joy is owning this car is to tour in it and it's about perfect for that now. 

 

We were stopped so many times by people wanting to talk about the car.  It's an honour to own this car and be part of it’s history. 

 

I recommend trying this or another Hill Climb to anyone.  Normandy, and Brittany, are lovely rural areas to visit with lots of fine food and towns.ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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anglophone1
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by anglophone1 »

We’ll done Neil- I’m coming next year😎
Clive
West Cork, Ireland

RGruppe #814
1978 SC/1984 3.2 Outlaw -Jaffa 911
1973 914 - on Webers - historic rally car- Tango 914
1977 924 2.0 on Webers street legal race car - Martini 924
Flachbau -in progress
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KS
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Re: Preparing my 356 to do a few hill climbs

Post by KS »

Glad you enjoyed it Neil - you're right about spending money to make cars less pleasant to drive. Makes no sense, but hey ho, that's how some of us roll! :lol:
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