EV conversions and DVLA

Chat away, Classic Porsche related or otherwise

Moderators: hot66, Miggs, 58A - 71E, impmad2000, drummerboytom, Barry, Helen, Viv_Surby, Derek, KS, abm914, Mike Usiskin

911hillclimber
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 18858
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by 911hillclimber »

A 'factory' modified car is going to carry far more weight as having engineering integrity and me doing my 911 to EV in my 2 car garage, so i would expect the car to carry it's original reg.

The pre-occupation with EV accelleration that at times rivals almost everything by Porsche (for example) seems silly to me.
Do the public really need such performance for the general use?
0-62 in 4 secs would scare the living daylights out of almost everyone who have been used to 9 or 12 seconds. Better to have 0-62 in 9 secs and 500 mile range/10 min charge or even 5 min charge?

Where do all these Teslar parts come from? Are they from damaged cars or have Teslar got a trade counter for bits?
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
User avatar
inaglasshouse
DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
Posts: 2423
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by inaglasshouse »

911hillclimber wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:33 am Do the public really need such performance for the general use?
0-62 in 4 secs would scare the living daylights out of almost everyone who have been used to 9 or 12 seconds. Better to have 0-62 in 9 secs and 500 mile range/10 min charge or even 5 min charge?

Where do all these Teslar parts come from? Are they from damaged cars or have Teslar got a trade counter for bits?
(Perhaps not unrelated to your point re performance) all my bits came from EVs that seem to have been crashed within a few hundred miles of purchase. All pretty-much brand new, no corrosion, batteries box fresh (State of Health tests). The breaker sent me pics of the two main donors, both front end impacts.
Gary71
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 10228
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:27 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Gary71 »

911hillclimber wrote:A 'factory' modified car is going to carry far more weight as having engineering integrity and me doing my 911 to EV in my 2 car garage, so i would expect the car to carry it's original reg.

The pre-occupation with EV accelleration that at times rivals almost everything by Porsche (for example) seems silly to me.
Do the public really need such performance for the general use?
0-62 in 4 secs would scare the living daylights out of almost everyone who have been used to 9 or 12 seconds. Better to have 0-62 in 9 secs and 500 mile range/10 min charge or even 5 min charge?

Where do all these Teslar parts come from? Are they from damaged cars or have Teslar got a trade counter for bits?
Restricting the acceleration doesn’t directly give you more range, so you kind of get the acceleration as a byproduct as it’s so much easier with an EV.

I agree that the numbers are daft though, anything sub 6 to 60 is still properly quick.
deano
I luv DDK!
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:34 am

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by deano »

I think you have to set the car Ludicrous mode on a Tesla to get the sub-6 acceleration. Restricting the acceleration would certain increase driving range because torque demand at the motor is directly proportional to current demand from the battery system.

The goal for most manufacturers is to have superfast charging, 80% in 15 minutes, but this needs hugely powerful chargers and a hell of a mains grid connection, so that option will come at a price and most likely only used by the richest of EV owners and at Service Stations :cyclopsani:
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
User avatar
matteo68
I luv DDK!
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:43 am
Location: Wootton, Woodstock, UK

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by matteo68 »

My I-Pace does 0-62 in 4.8 seconds without any kind of Tesla-esque Ludicrous mode (clue’s in the name there - a Tesla Model S P100D will do 0-62 in 2.4 with Ludicrous mode and launch mode activated which must be pretty unpleasant for passengers…).

This is properly fast for an SUV, and 30-70 in just 3.5 secs is very useful for safer overtaking and motorway driving, but most of the time (my commute to the office) I don’t need performance like that and just trundle along. I’d also be happy to trade some of that performance for more range too (I get c.240 miles on a full charge).
'72 T 210 2176 (ex-Hawaii donor car for '72 M491 2.5 SR)
'72 S 230 0347 (two-owner tangerine unicorn)
Gary71
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 10228
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:27 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Gary71 »

deano wrote:I think you have to set the car Ludicrous mode on a Tesla to get the sub-6 acceleration. Restricting the acceleration would certain increase driving range because torque demand at the motor is directly proportional to current demand from the battery system.

The goal for most manufacturers is to have superfast charging, 80% in 15 minutes, but this needs hugely powerful chargers and a hell of a mains grid connection, so that option will come at a price and most likely only used by the richest of EV owners and at Service Stations :cyclopsani:
Obviously if you don’t use the power then your range increases, just like an ICE car. But you never use anything like full throttle during a drive cycle measuring range so it makes no difference. It’s just easier to offer the potential with an EV.

EU7 (new emissions reg) has been published this morning so best get used to EV sooner than expected…
Sam
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 4053
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:56 am
Location: Cambridge

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Sam »

But being capable of such acceleration means the cars need all sorts of big heavy bits they wouldn’t need if the performance was more sensible, so the cars would be more efficient, go farther, be quieter etc if their acceleration wasn’t so needlessly strong.

The i3 (and the insight before it) had fancy tyres and aero wheels and small frontal areas and all that, but it seems that’s all been forgotten.

We switched to electric cars at work a few years ago, the accident rate has gone up. Axa reckon electric cars are 50% more likely to crash: https://www.brusselstimes.com/287315/el ... tudy-shows
964 C2 Targa. 205 1.6 GTi. Testarossa. Fisher Fury Fireblade. Motorhome. Motorbikes. Scooters. Pushbikes. Threadbare Saucony Peregrines. Dog. Human relations and friends. 97.5%-built house.
User avatar
Jonny Hart
Put a fork in me, I'm done!
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Jonny Hart »

Nine One One wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:33 am So if the Mini factory is doing bespoke conversions of old Mini’s to EV are they then subject to a Q plate and IVA test, or does DVLA just overlook this because it is an official factory conversion??

https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/mini- ... arged.html

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/3571 ... conversion
It's no more 'factory' than any of the other conversions - the kit was developed by Zero-EV and fitted by 'Recharged Heritage'. Anyone can buy this kit and fit it.
User avatar
Jonny Hart
Put a fork in me, I'm done!
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Jonny Hart »

Gary71 wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:54 pm I agree that the numbers are daft though, anything sub 6 to 60 is still properly quick.
I'm currently at 4.5s in the 914 which is a little silly. Usually when you are driving an old car, you tense up and prepare to brace when someone pulls out late from a side road.

Now, there's a new game...

I pulled out a little late at a junction last week and had Audi 'must get home' man immediately on the flashers. I was on the horizon before he got to beep the horn. :lol:
Nine One One
Put a fork in me, I'm done!
Posts: 1619
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Kernow - good old Cornwall

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by Nine One One »

Jonny Hart wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:20 pm
Nine One One wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:33 am So if the Mini factory is doing bespoke conversions of old Mini’s to EV are they then subject to a Q plate and IVA test, or does DVLA just overlook this because it is an official factory conversion??

https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/mini- ... arged.html

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/3571 ... conversion
It's no more 'factory' than any of the other conversions - the kit was developed by Zero-EV and fitted by 'Recharged Heritage'. Anyone can buy this kit and fit it.
Exactly, how can there be one rule for one, and another for everyone else. They must be altering the chassis, drilling holes, welding in brackets etc, and all the other bits DVLA claim nullify the current V5. Surely someone can use this as an appeal for what is happening, if Mini UK are setting a precedent and avoiding the penalties others are suffering?
User avatar
KS
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 14919
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by KS »

Bear in mind that many of the factory-sanctioned continuation models (Lightweight E-Types, Blower Bentleys, etc) cannot be registered in the UK - according to the Jaguar representative I spoke to, they are expected to be sold/registered abroad with some owners then hoping to reimport them under the radar as 'historic'. The process of registration is down to the customer as far as they are concerned - maybe it's the same with the EV Mini?

To quote the Mini site: "As the MINI Recharged project is currently in its development phase, we will be announcing further communications throughout the year, including pricing, technical information, customer journey...".

It's all a bit 'fluffy' and lacking in detail - both stories highlighted above ignore any details about registration and are full of "we hope to..." terminology.
Keith Seume
Follow on Instagram @orange914
My YouTube channel
User avatar
inaglasshouse
DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
Posts: 2423
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by inaglasshouse »

KS wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:49 am Bear in mind that many of the factory-sanctioned continuation models (Lightweight E-Types, Blower Bentleys, etc) cannot be registered in the UK
Although that's a rather different case, where a new car is being created from scratch. What could / should its identity be?
At least with an EV based on an existing old car, we have a candidate for an identity it could keep...
User avatar
KS
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 14919
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by KS »

Except that, as the regs stand, they lose their identity as soon as certain mods are carried out.
Keith Seume
Follow on Instagram @orange914
My YouTube channel
911hillclimber
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 18858
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by 911hillclimber »

If drilling a few holes in the shell means the car should be IVA (cannot be the case?) then all mods and restorations are 'suspect'?

Could dvla say a car restored using MIG and not spot welds is 'modified'?
This is an absurd situation surely that is unrealistic, be it an EV conversion or a restoration using modern means (and probably in armature hands).
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
User avatar
KS
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 14919
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: EV conversions and DVLA

Post by KS »

Restoration done on a like for like basis does not mean a vehicle needs to be put through IVA, while improvements made to braking systems in the name of safety are OK, too, as are engine upgrades which don’t require other modifications.

As for the first point, I’ll just repeat what I wrote earlier in this thread:
“The reality of the situation is that there is no way the DVLA or whoever can keep tabs on everything - installing a roll cage, fitting seat belts, etc is of little consequence in the real world as there simply isn't the infrastructure to police or test every single vehicle. As things stand, it would rely on people telling them, 'Oh, by the way, I've drilled a hole in my car...'. As long as the vehicle is correctly insured, then there's little to worry about in reality, unless modifications can be proved to have caused an accident, fatal or otherwise. At that point, losing the right to a V5c is probably the least of your worries...“

My best advice, Graham, is to relax. Nobody’s likely to demand your 911 be crushed (just yet…) :)
Keith Seume
Follow on Instagram @orange914
My YouTube channel
Post Reply