Winterburn cdi

[neilbardsley]

http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/

I recently fitted this 6v CDI unit to my car and I'm very impressed. The car ran pretty nicely so wasn't expected a massive change. However, the starting is greatly improved. In particularly from a cold start when they car has been sitting for a while and the carbs don't have any fuel in them but also from hot starts too. I can't quantify it yet but the car is running smoother across the rpm range too (I haven't tried to widen the plug gap yet). We are planning a September drive to Northern Europe (the 914 is going to CLM this year) I'm feeling a lot more confident about taking the car will report back afterwards.

Appears like my engine builder (Harry Pellow) Fred is a retired Nuclear Scientist/Engineer! More position feedback here

https://www.912bbs.org/forum/threads/wi ... ion.58193/

[Lightweight_911]

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Sounds like a useful upgrade Neil ...

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[hashman]

Do you think you'll see any MPG improvement Neil?

Karl

[neilbardsley]

I think it will but I will struggle to provide proper data. According to Fred's website the improvement is better for highly tuned engines. I guess that means higher compression and more aggressive cams?

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[Ashley James]

Electronic ignition will only ever give as good performance as a perfect distributor and coil set up. Points seem to be short lived these days and condensers unreliable, so replacing them is a good plan.

However the main bearing in the distributor and the automatic timing device also wear and cause more problems.

Therefore replacing the lot with a 123 distributor which does the advance curve electronically and has no points is probably more cost effective in the long term. On the other hand, if the unit is in good condition except for worn points and a very old condenser, you might prefer a cheaper conversion that just replaces them.

Points close over time and retard the ignition giving a noticeable loss of power and increased fuel consumption. Erratic action cause by the ATD will cause the tickover to be difficult to set and may lose more power. This is all electronic ignition will fix.

The spark is generally stronger and may help starting

Hope this helps

[neilbardsley]

The distributor was rebuilt by Bruce Smith in the States so I know is good.

However, the distributor becomes a low voltage switch so in my mind you are less dependent on it. It appears the cdi really helps at higher rpm because the points can bounce

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[Jonny Hart]

Electronic ignition will only ever give as good performance as a perfect distributor and coil set up.

The system in question is a CDI system which works completely differently to a Kettering ignition. Do not confuse this with 'electronic ignition' (which is just a transistor firing a coil, rather than points).

It is highly likely that CDI will give superior performance compared points and inductive coil. It will certainly give better starting and cope with plug fouling and is likely to improve low down torque.

[neilbardsley]

Article here by Bruce Smith

http://sparkingplugs.com/resources/Igni ... +Smith.pdf

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[silverboydreamer]

Hi,
after reading your post about the CD unit improving the staring of a 6volt 356, I thought it’s just what I need to get better starting from my car as it can be a bit of a challenge from cold and standing for any length of time.
I sent Fred an email expressing interest in buying a unit and costs of shipping and delivery time etc, no response, so I phoned Fred and had a nice chat and ordered a unit over the phone, he asked me to confirm via email which I did asking him to confirm my order, no response.
Is this the experience you had when ordering your unit?, is it just Fred’s way?.

[neilbardsley]

Hi,
after reading your post about the CD unit improving the staring of a 6volt 356, I thought it’s just what I need to get better starting from my car as it can be a bit of a challenge from cold and standing for any length of time.
I sent Fred an email expressing interest in buying a unit and costs of shipping and delivery time etc, no response, so I phoned Fred and had a nice chat and ordered a unit over the phone, he asked me to confirm via email which I did asking him to confirm my order, no response.
Is this the experience you had when ordering your unit?, is it just Fred’s way?.

All communication was via email and quick. Sry he did mention that I got the last of the current batch and the new ones wouldn't be available for a few months. However, they would have a small improvement

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[Fred Winterburn]

I follow some of what is on the Porsche forums sporadically, so I didn't see this until now. Mr K. I remember our telephone conversation, but for some reason I never received the follow up email. Nothing in my spam folder either so I suppose a slight misspelling of the email address was the cause. It is winterburnignition@gmail.com I expect to have a new batch of 6V units ready the first week of August. This batch is redesigned and has a slightly higher voltage starting spark and increased rpm capability at low battery voltage. The rpm improvement is not necessary for a 4 cylinder, but would be for anything with over 8 cylinders. My production is slightly delayed because I took a chance and built a batch based on bench testing of components separately. The results were unexpected once built with excessive voltage ( I hit the Q button on the oscillator) so I have to detune every one for safety, but this only requires changing out a single capacitor and resistor in the power supply section. I'm going on holiday for two weeks (camping trip) in a few days and will be off line until I return the first week of August. Please try to send another email. Also try my home email just to be sure. It is forjwinterburn@gmail.com Sorry for the delayed response! Fred

Hi,
after reading your post about the CD unit improving the staring of a 6volt 356, I thought it’s just what I need to get better starting from my car as it can be a bit of a challenge from cold and standing for any length of time.
I sent Fred an email expressing interest in buying a unit and costs of shipping and delivery time etc, no response, so I phoned Fred and had a nice chat and ordered a unit over the phone, he asked me to confirm via email which I did asking him to confirm my order, no response.
Is this the experience you had when ordering your unit?, is it just Fred’s way?.

[neilbardsley]

Can anyone educate on the difference between a CDI unit like Fred's and an ignition amplifier like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201352025609 ... &media=SMS

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[Fred Winterburn]

That's a simple inductive switcher. It uses the points to trigger a transistor circuit. The heavy current and high voltage is removed from the points so they last much longer. The transistor circuit makes and breaks the coil current. The main difference between my CDI and the gammatronix (other than price) is phase angle between current and voltage. Inductive ignitions of all types have current that lags the voltage. A CDI has current leading voltage. It is this leading power factor that makes CDI superior in firing fouled spark plugs, or plugs with wet insulators. It's commonly thought and written that it is a fast voltage rise that makes CDI superior to inductive ignitions in overcoming shunt resistances such as fouling, but it is actually due to the favourable phase angle. Current(amps) prefers a capacitive load which is precisely what the spark plug gap represents prior to spark formation, so current preferentially pre-ionizes the spark gap rather than going through a shunt resistance. Because the gap is pre-ionized so quickly, the spark occurs more quickly and becomes the preferred low impedance current path. This advantage can be partially defeated with excessive voltage and if the shunt resistance is quite low, but a CDI will always do this better than any inductive ignition. The other difference is that the gammatronix will be completely dependent on battery voltage and points dwell for the amount of current fluxing the coil. My CDI is designed to provide a much wider useful battery voltage range. Dwell doesn't matter to the CDI and the effects of points bounce are cancelled by the trigger circuit. If the points start to float which is a violent and uneven points bounce, the CDI anti points bounce circuit can't help, but that usually occurs way past the redline on most points distributors. I have not tested the gammatronix, but it also likely has a 1V-1.3V drop from the transistor switch which really limits coil current on a 6V system. Fred

Can anyone educate on the difference between a CDI unit like Fred's and an ignition amplifier like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201352025609 ... &media=SMS

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[neilbardsley]

Thank you Fred so no better than the pertronix I have replacing the points in my 12v at the moment

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