Hankering after a 356 Help Needed

[MarkIII]

Hoping that you DDK members can help in providing some advice around 356 ownership. After spending a number of years completing my 911t/r project, which was completed back in Oct, i have found myself in a situation, looking for a 2nd classic car. What has not helped is the dark autumn/winter nights and the salt on the roads which has prevented me from just enjoying what i have and driving my freshly built 911 . So i have been scouring the classifieds (not in a bad way) for a 2nd classic. Initially i found myself looking at more modern 911s, a 964, 993, even an impact bumper 911 (sorry impact bumper owners) all of which i have discounted based on rising costs of 911s and very few good examples coming to the market. i also decided i wanted to experience something other than a 911.

I then found myself moving on to 105 series Alfa's initially looking at 1750 or 2L GTV's from the early 70s, lots available good and bad examples. After seeking some advice from Andy (Lightweight-911) i started looking at GT 1600 sprints from around 66/67, great looking cars but very few cars are currently on the market, not to much of an issue as i am not in any real hurry.

Last Friday evening after a having a few glasses of red, i stumbled across a few U-tube videos of 356s. At the time i was still adamant that an alfa would be sitting next to my 911 at some point in the near future, but the more i looked into earlier Porsches the more i thought about having another Porsche in the garage. I will be honest i know very little about 356s. i know that the earlier models are the most desirable, pre A and A models, good examples are also a small fortune and way more than i can afford to spend. Based on the more recent cars i have owned and restored i am not one for matching numbers and originality, although my 911 is pretty much made up from original restored parts that were available back in the day to pimp up your early swb 911.

So my thinking is to look for a 356 which perhaps needs a little work, which would be affordable and i could put my own stamp on it, i very much like the 356 GT look. I appreciate that hot rodding of 356s is not going to be to the taste of some of the purists on here but i am thinking about introducing just some sutle changes such as speedster seats, perhaps changing the front and rear bumpers/front end to look a little more like the earlier cars. With my very limited knowledge gained in the last few days i understand that the early cars are not within my price range, so i am looking at probably the later 64/65 356C slightly more power at around 90bhp, disc breaks instead of drums, koni struts etc.

Like any cars built in the 60s if cars have not been recently restored then they are most likely to be rust buckets, so ideally i would want to take on something which has had some work done in terms of the shell/body. So some initial help from the knowledgably 356 crowd on DDK:

Firstly am i mad to want to take on another potential project so soon after finishing my 911

Wait for a 356 which has already been modified, where the hard work has been done

What are the areas of a 356 which i should look out for, i know 911s not a clue on 356s.

recommendations for 356 experts who can help, i have visited PRS a few yrs back and i have seen them being highly recommended on the forum, any other experts

many other questions, but these will suffice for now.

Thanks
Mark

[Hugo 356]

The US based Registry is a good starting place to learn more about the 356

https://porsche356registry.org/

This project was advertised this week on the Registry website:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304412187048?autorefresh=true



A 356 project is not likely to be dissimilar to an equivalent 911 project. Maybe more involved with some parts harder to find, body more work to get right but engine easier to rebuild

It used to be said body / rust was the most important thing when looking for a 356. Parts that haven't been reproduced are very expensive & hard to find now, so I would add completeness

If I were embarking on a project I would look for someone who has extensive experience working on 356s. Budget, location and how much you want to project manage will help you select a specialist from high-end, project managed 'named' restorations from specialists who carry an extensive range of reproduced / original parts to great word-of-mouth bodywork guys, below the radar with a waiting list. Speak to a lot of 356 people somewhere like Hedingham

356s are rare, with sensibly priced / good cars rarer still. If you are looking for a car I would spread the net wide including the US and have the car inspected by someone who knows what they are looking at. A 356 project is not to be entered into lightly; unless you are doing the bodywork yourself a car that has had the work done is likely to be a more economic route to 356 ownership than a project but if you enjoyed the 911 journey...

[neilbardsley]

Unfortunately affordable and needs a little work don't live together in 356 land. Affordable means different things to different people but the days of paying £30-50k for a almost road worthy car are gone.

My question would be when you are going to use a 356. If you get one that is a bit rusty then you certainly will not take it out in winter. Like your 911. If you restore it then don't you have the same problem as the 911?

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[Disco]

hey Mark. I think this would be better served in the 356 section - I know you'd get a load of help maybe Bootsy could move it for you. That said, I think you're suggesting what I did actually - ie start with a 911 and then move to a 356. - I bought mine from PRS about 8 years back. it was/is a bit of a bitza so when I wanted to do a mild outlaw, it wasnt going to truely upset the purists, becuase, well it wasnt pure to begin with.. mind you, my yellow wheels are an acquired taste, but well f*ck it, its my choice.

there's no doubt ( in my mind at least ), you buy a 356 for the looks. its not the greatest of drives, it seems to yallop into corners, I mean, dont get me wrong, you have to hold on at times, but its a Sunday drive, not a track day car. worth trying one before you leap on an ebay bargain, if you havent already.

bodywork wise, I agree with Hugo. not sure if you're handy with a MIG or not, but generally a project is going to need a lot of work, if you want to do it 100% right and if it hasnt been done before. I had a shocker if I'm honest - the car was in a local shop that really werent that well equipped to do the job and then they went bust. I had to load up my rangerover with doors and bonnets, glass and stuff and drive the shell home ( didnt see any cops so phew ) I found another place that did a goodish job and then had someone else improve on it, when I had some money ( door gaps/ fit wasnt great ) - The mechanics, I entrusted to PRS and I can really really recommend them and the interior I had Garry at ClassicFX do it ( and a load of other jobs too ) - again an excellent contact ( on DDK too )

I'm not sure about prices, suppose it depends on your budget really - you can find cars for 30-40 but oof, they're scary for me. 50-60 I think you'd get something half decent - 60-70 pretty snazzy and then 70+ I'd say is show car money... I'm no expert though.

if you search my name, you'll find my 356 on here somewhere - assuming the photo account hasn't been closed and if you're in Surrey, I'm happy to show you around it. but for expert advice, I'd say Paul at PRS is probably the best no bullsh*t car salesman I've met.

cheers
Joe

[Bootsy]

Will move for you

[Winston Teague]

Hi, Don't let what has been said above put you off, what a river of gloom.......

'there's no doubt ( in my mind at least ), you buy a 356 for the looks. its not the greatest of drives, it seems to yallop into corners, I mean, dont get me wrong, you have to hold on at times, but its a Sunday drive, not a track day car. worth trying one before you leap on an ebay bargain, if you havent already.'

Rubbish. They are a great drive, not modern, remember it's a 50s car, and like all things they need to be right and set up well ........

'Unfortunately affordable and needs a little work don't live together in 356 land.'

Why not? Mechanically no more complex that a Beetle and Bodily, no more complex than a Beetle. They are really very simple. Parts availability is excellent for all but the earliest models. The tub whilst needing to be done carefully is not a sophisticated structure. The biggest problem is Porsche Tax. This isn't present at PRS, or Roger Bray. If you can weld up a MBGB or MK 1 Escort you can weld up a 356. Yes, you can spend as much as you like on big name restorers, but you really don't need to. Give it 10 years of use it'll be rusty again anyway......

I'm 16 years and 40k miles in to my T5B, its been welded up by a local chap and sprayed by another, both friends. I've done king pins, etc, and some other stuff to it over the years. Its fast but not powerful (late SC engine on Webers) Dyno'd at 79 bhp at the wheels. Very engaging to drive, will do 30mpg and cruise at 85-90 on the motorway (not at the same time) and I've done 575 miles in a day once, mostly off motorway.

I've never had a 911 (yet) and can't see when id use one. The 356 is sooooo easy to live with. Good luck, W

PS i'm in rural Worcestershire if you want a closer look at one, that is pretty much to your spec....

[inaglasshouse]

Last Friday evening after a having a few glasses of red, i stumbled across a few U-tube videos of 356s. At the time i was still adamant that an alfa would be sitting next to my 911 at some point in the near future, but the more i looked into earlier Porsches the more i thought about having another Porsche in the garage. I will be honest i know very little about 356s.

That's pretty-much what happened to me, Mark. Following rather less research than might have been wise, I then bought a 1959 A from the "nice old thing with a few issues" kind of price range. Solid not rusty, not been messed with too much, quite presentable, but needed mechanical fettling.

I'm not regretting it yet. Agree with Winston, technically very simple, even compared with an early 911, (and pleasant to work on). Many lovely details. Slow, but that's fine.
It's a charming car.

[roy mawbey]

Mark,

I have been driving my 356A super now for 53 years, I bought it because it was a car I wanted from the mid 50's when I first saw one. The shape of the car in the 50's was so different to the normal cars I saw driving around Isleworth. Of course the price off them at around £2,000 was half of what I paid for my first newly built house in the mid sixties! So thank goodness they rusted very quickly and by the late 60's you could buy a running wreck for £100-

So if a high percentage were rusty by 1969 imagine how few really are original these days. Be careful if you saw one with bad rust get it inspected before parting with money by a specialist. The rust can get everywhere. So maybe that is why if a good one turns up the price goes up. Sure, panels are available but forget just a few months work if its a bad case. Mechanic's are workable and most jobs are possible with the right equipment and plenty of time. So far I have never had to give up and take mine to a garage but I have always liked the welding, spraying and the restoration of the mechanical items. But Mark its an on going experience which I think you already have experience of.

They are a great drive, people love the look of the car but you cannot compare it to a 911 or say my BMW. I take my 75hp car for what it is, and thankful it keeps up fine with modern boxes.

Prices are difficult to access, look at Hagerty price guides and those up for sale and it could frighten you. In fact because of that I have agreed value insurance that makes me rather careful when driving it.

I can say I really am still so attached to my car and so pleased I have kept it all this time. Just be careful though in getting the right one. I also ran for some years in the seventies a 356C a nice car but I prefer the old 'A' shape buts that's just me because, there were those improvements on the late 356 cars.

Roy

[MarkIII]

This project was advertised this week on the Registry website:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304412187048?autorefresh=true



Thanks Maveric, i have looked at the project above, looks like some work has been done on the outer panels of the car which could be disguising a multitude of other things underneath. would be good to get yours and others opinions on this car, also its priced at around £30k buy it now price is that the standard price of a car needing everything.

356s are rare, with sensibly priced / good cars rarer still. If you are looking for a car I would spread the net wide including the US and have the car inspected by someone who knows what they are looking at. A 356 project is not to be entered into lightly; unless you are doing the bodywork yourself a car that has had the work done is likely to be a more economic route to 356 ownership than a project but if you enjoyed the 911 journey...[/quote]

Unfortunately i do not have the skills or the equipment to undertake the body work myself so this would need to be passed onto someone who is familiar with 356s, and i guess thats the challenge, just like 911 restoration garages i would assume 356 experts in the UK charge a small fortune.

[MarkIII]

Unfortunately affordable and needs a little work don't live together in 356 land. Affordable means different things to different people but the days of paying £30-50k for a almost road worthy car are gone.

My question would be when you are going to use a 356. If you get one that is a bit rusty then you certainly will not take it out in winter. Like your 911. If you restore it then don't you have the same problem as the 911?

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Hi Neil

You make a really good point having two fully restored early cars in the garage is likely to result in me never using them during the autumn/winter months or when its wet........ i would like to think that a little rain will not prevent me from using any car.

A compromise could be in having a second car which is not necessarily a fully restored pristine car, instead having a 356 which has been well maintained but is not a show queen, which will hopefully mean it will get used come rain or shine....

[MarkIII]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144471706094?h ... SwSS1iOKgz

What do we think of this project non matching which is not a problem. Some external body work completed, looks like it could be a better propersition than the earlier project that Maverick posted.....

[MarkIII]

Hi, Don't let what has been said above put you off, what a river of gloom.......

'there's no doubt ( in my mind at least ), you buy a 356 for the looks. its not the greatest of drives, it seems to yallop into corners, I mean, dont get me wrong, you have to hold on at times, but its a Sunday drive, not a track day car. worth trying one before you leap on an ebay bargain, if you havent already.'

Rubbish. They are a great drive, not modern, remember it's a 50s car, and like all things they need to be right and set up well ........

Thats a relief to here

Why not? Mechanically no more complex that a Beetle and Bodily, no more complex than a Beetle. They are really very simple. Parts availability is excellent for all but the earliest models. The tub whilst needing to be done carefully is not a sophisticated structure. The biggest problem is Porsche Tax. This isn't present at PRS, or Roger Bray. If you can weld up a MBGB or MK 1 Escort you can weld up a 356. Yes, you can spend as much as you like on big name restorers, but you really don't need to. Give it 10 years of use it'll be rusty again anyway......

Great to know PRS and Roger Bray are two good and reasonable shops to help with restoring and maintaining these cars.

I'm 16 years and 40k miles in to my T5B, its been welded up by a local chap and sprayed by another, both friends. I've done king pins, etc, and some other stuff to it over the years. Its fast but not powerful (late SC engine on Webers) Dyno'd at 79 bhp at the wheels. Very engaging to drive, will do 30mpg and cruise at 85-90 on the motorway (not at the same time) and I've done 575 miles in a day once, mostly off motorway.

I've never had a 911 (yet) and can't see when id use one. The 356 is sooooo easy to live with. Good luck, W

PS i'm in rural Worcestershire if you want a closer look at one, that is pretty much to your spec....

I may take you up your offer Winston, thanks

[Hugo 356]

Projects like those above are not for the feint hearted. I would assume they need everything doing and are incomplete. I'm not close to your 911 project, but I suppose the question is did you enjoy the project journey; finding the parts, following progress, writing cheques, collecting the finished product etc?

The seller Adam Wright at Unobtanium Inc has a Barn Finding column in the 356 Registry Magazine. Short of scouring the barns of small-town America yourself, you are unlikely to find a much lower entry point. A finished project is likely to cost more than a car that someone else has already done the heavy lifting on

I wouldn't rely on photos but have any car inspected on the ground by someone who can estimate the work involved. When I bought my car from the US I found someone to inspect it through the 356 Registry

There are a range of people capable of working on 356s. Getting the curves and gaps right with the integrated body / wings / chassis means engaging a skilled craftsman for a considerable amount of time, so restoring a 356 properly is never going to be cheap

[jonno1]

Owning a 1958 356A and a 1967 RHD Alfa Giulia Sprint GTV I can recommend both but they are very different, not least in terms of value.

The Alfa is a great all rounder and less valuable (so less of a worry) and relatively easy to work on. Parts are all available and much cheaper than Porsche parts. Its faster than the 356 and easier to use in todays traffic. Has a proper boot too.

The 356 is beautiful, gets a lot of attention (not always welcome when they are right on your bumper) and is lovely to pootle around in. I rarely venture onto motorways with it - but its fine at 60mph cruising along.

I would think about the Alfa more given you already have the 911. Its very rare to find a “usable” 356 - they are either restored or rotten - there isnt much in between from what I can tell from what comes up for sale. That said, PRS have a nice silver B for £75k on their website which looks nice and usable and ripe for some tasteful modifications.

[neilbardsley]

I'm happy to take my 356 on the motorway but despite having a few more horses than Winston the engine temperature gets a bit too high if I cruise at the speed he suggests.

If you want boot and bonnet space try a 914

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