New Car Woes - 1...Update

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Nine One One
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by Nine One One »

I think the main issue for Jason is, if this area was repaired in such a manner, what other shortcuts were taken, and what else is there hidden from view? It certainly would make most people consider what else is lurking, and the nature of the ‘restoration’?
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

I don't see any sign of a legal case.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by Bootsy »

And I don’t think Jason has ever raised the subject
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

Bootsy wrote:And I don’t think Jason has ever raised the subject
No indeed he's not. I was commenting as it has been raised a few times on the thread.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by Bruce M »

I hesitate to add anything but perhaps a summary based on the information posted above.

1) bodywork & paint completed in 2013.
2) oil pipe was presumably checked & pressure tested, and deemed fit for reuse prior to paint.
3) oil leak appeared & customer offered options for repair in 2019. Customer chose & paid for a local repair and accepted the risk.
4) 2021 car sold and local repair failed.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by mjh356@hotmail.com »

I think that Bruce's summary was good and fair.

I am in the cycle business where we custom build, repair, service and repair bikes. We see situations where people have bought bikes privately which the PO claims are working perfectly and just need a tune. We see it when a problem occurs, we do uncover a mulititude of sins where the PO has bodged something for sale or a "mate of a mate" has fixed it for not much. The current owner is left carrying the can. I have see that so often. The car world is no exception. What happened in history is history. Once a bike walks (or rolls) out the door I have no control or say in what happens to it.

Before bashing the "specialist", one cannot really judge as one needed to be a party to ALL the discussions including the advice given and what the customer had decided to do. A good "specialist" will try to assist.

IMHO

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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

It certainly looks to me that the repair that Alan described is not what was just found on the car. I was wondering if the braising had failed and then someone else had subsequently done the repair relying on the hose to bridge the gap.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by deano »

I think the owner was looking for opinions on how to repair it.

If it were me, I think I would go with either the external oil lines option or the rear-mounted oil cooler option, primarily to avoid the large area paint repair, and I would consider the new cooling solution as a 'sensible upgrade'.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

I would go with the full repair if funds allowed (3 days, plus materials and a paint job). But cooler at the back would be next. I'd not want outside pipes going to the front.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by 964RS »

Bruce M wrote:I hesitate to add anything but perhaps a summary based on the information posted above.

1) bodywork & paint completed in 2013.
2) oil pipe was presumably checked & pressure tested, and deemed fit for reuse prior to paint.
3) oil leak appeared & customer offered options for repair in 2019. Customer chose & paid for a local repair and accepted the risk.
4) 2021 car sold and local repair failed.

Ok let's get some things straight as this is my thread.

At no point have I mentioned 'legals' and at no point have I bashed any 'specialist'.

I found a nightmare oil leak soon after buying what I thought was going to be a perfect car which I had no idea how to sort not being mechanically minded (hence the reason for trying to buy something perfect) and asked for help/advice.

I found a rubber pipe sticking out of a sill with a jubilee on it where the oil was leaking and an invoice in the service history that said "Strip and remove lower sill section, repair pipe section as discussed with rubber/fabric hose. Repair section and welding back in place. Refit trims and rubbers" and was then told later in this thread by the company that did the repair that the piece of rubber I could see was not the repair and that the repair was brased and the rubber was just holding the two pipes apart.

I then cut into the car to see what was actually going on and updated what I have found so far - an 8" piece of rubber hose bridging a 3" gap in the oil pipe held on with 6 jubilee clips and welded around. That's it. That's where I am at and what I have found.

Others are speculating, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what has actually happened and what my options are.

For timeline purposes though since people are now guessing at dates...

The restoration was completed on 27th June 2017.

The oil pipe repair invoice is dated 15th February 2019 at 94,859 miles.

Canford Classics then advertised the car for sale on the 28th March 2019.

The car was subsequently sold/traded by the owner to Paul McLean at GT Classics some time I suspect in 2020 (there are storage invoices until end of 2019)

I bought the car in April 2021 at 94,922 miles (so 63 miles after the invoice repair).

These are the facts I have.

I don't know if there is 'another repair' inside the sill but I suspect it's highly unlikely within 60 miles of the last one?
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gridgway
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

Looks like we've found the three or four options for solving the problem:
Full replacement pipes inside
Pipes on the outside (yuk!)
Rear oil cooler
No oil cooler

Then as to what happened there is a mystery. The possibilities are:
the fix has transformed itself from a braised pipe to a hose bridging a big gap
the braise solution wasn't done
the braise solution failed and was redone with the rubber pipe in the time between 2019 and when it was sold to Jason.
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jb
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by jb »

gridgway wrote: Pipes on the outside (yuk!)
.
Why yuk?
Later cars had them on the outside.
It seems more practical to me and it is a relatively easy solution.
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New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by hot66 »

gridgway wrote:Looks like we've found the three or four options for solving the problem:
Full replacement pipes inside
Pipes on the outside (yuk!)
Rear oil cooler
No oil cooler

Then as to what happened there is a mystery. The possibilities are:
the fix has transformed itself from a braised pipe to a hose bridging a big gap
the braise solution wasn't done
the braise solution failed and was redone with the rubber pipe in the time between 2019 and when it was sold to Jason.
The car had done 60miles since the ‘repair’ and jason buying it …..there is no way anything was done or changed by anyone else since the 2019 repair at the specialist…..all assuming the location of this 2019 ‘braised’ repair is at the same location.

Let’s be honest … none of us are daft we can see where this is all heading ……, its looking more and more like a claimed repair of an oil pipe being braised was actually repaired with hoses and jubilee clamps .

If my car I’d also want to repair it to stock 2.2S specifications so an external run of pipe would be a no go ( even though on my 2.4S external cooler pipes are stock )
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by 911hillclimber »

FWIW, agree with James.
Re-pipe the car, with new be done with it and love the future experiences.
I would have to find a specialist close by though or someone you would trust.

These issues are easier to fix when you are 'hands-on' but in Jason's case he needs someone to trust.
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Re: New Car Woes - 1...Update

Post by gridgway »

hot66 wrote:
gridgway wrote:Looks like we've found the three or four options for solving the problem:
Full replacement pipes inside
Pipes on the outside (yuk!)
Rear oil cooler
No oil cooler

Then as to what happened there is a mystery. The possibilities are:
the fix has transformed itself from a braised pipe to a hose bridging a big gap
the braise solution wasn't done
the braise solution failed and was redone with the rubber pipe in the time between 2019 and when it was sold to Jason.
The car had done 60miles since the ‘repair’ and jason buying it …..there is no way anything was done or changed by anyone else since the 2019 repair at the specialist…..all assuming the location of this 2019 ‘braised’ repair is at the same location.

Let’s be honest … none of us are daft we can see where this is all heading ……, its looking more and more like a claimed repair of an oil pipe being braised was actually repaired with hoses and jubilee clamps .

If my car I’d also want to repair it to stock 2.2S specifications so an external run of pipe would be a no go ( even though on my 2.4S external cooler pipes are stock )
We are agreed that the right solution is the right solution!

However I disagree about the repair. There was 3 years between the repair and when Jason bought it. Even with only 60 miles the repair could have failed. It could easily have been cut open, the new repair made and made good. The choice is between Alan coming on here and telling a tale or something else happening. I prefer the latter narrative.
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