KS's hillclimbing odyssey

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rhd racer
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by rhd racer »

Well done Keith, great improvements there and the car sounds great. I used to run 25 all round on the 914, and slightly more at 26/27 on the Boxster due to its weight when running Toyos. This gave me hot pressures in the right sort of window. The rear pressure sounds a bit low - what is it rising to after a run? I would try and aim for equal hot pressures front / rear if you can.

My slicks ideal hot pressure is 29psi, and I start at 25-27 depending on the temperature and then measure again after the run. If above the target temp I let air out to get back in the target window. Usually by the afternoon runs it has got as hot as it’s going to get and they don’t need touching again.

In the damp I would aim for a much lower hot target pressure, more like 25-27psi, equal front/back. Hope none of the above is teaching you to suck eggs!

Cheers
Wayne


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93 964 C2
99 Boxster 2.5 > 2.7 hill climber

71 914/6 3.0 - gone

'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
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KS
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by KS »

rhd racer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:36 pmThe rear pressure sounds a bit low - what is it rising to after a run?
Hi Wayne - I'd mistyped in the original post. I'd written '17' when I meant '27', so we're in the same ballpark. The temps were rising all the time until mid-afternoon, so kept dropping them until they stabilised.

(All reminds me of my drag racing days, except back then I was running as low as 7 or 8psi cold in the slicks, which rose to about 10 or 11 after each run...)
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rhd racer
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by rhd racer »

Excellent - Funnily enough I could only think that your ‘No Mercy’ tyre warming procedures were so refined they added 10psi!!!

Glad the car is all fixed and you are back out in it


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93 964 C2
99 Boxster 2.5 > 2.7 hill climber

71 914/6 3.0 - gone

'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by 911hillclimber »

Long way back hillclimbing my 911 on Avon CR28's at Prescott we were all asked (in the road tyred classes) not to pre start spin the tyres due to acute noise issues on the site/area.
Made no difference to the hill times.

Also, on my Lola @ 560Kg the slicks need to be 13 Fr / 15 Rr psi
At the top of the hill the temps had risen considerably.

Pressures need checking right before every run.

Back then, i ran the 205 x 50 x 15 Avon CR sports at 26 / 30 psi.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
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KS
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by KS »

Well, you’d better start now!

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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by neilbardsley »

Indeed.

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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by Hugo 356 »

New hill climbing discipline; how far can you get up the hill on battery & starter motor alone
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rhd racer
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by rhd racer »

Not far on my 1kg battery!!


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93 964 C2
99 Boxster 2.5 > 2.7 hill climber

71 914/6 3.0 - gone

'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by KS »

Time for an update (I can hear the yawns from the back row). After fitting the new starter and battery, the car remained a PITA to start. In fact, it got to the point where it wouldn't start, period. For three long weeks the car sat sulking. I consumed more red wine than is probably healthy. As it would cough occasionally, or backfire, fingers were pointed at the crank sensor which was a worry as changing it would mean having to drop the engine and trans so I could remove the cooling fan to access the sensor mounted behind the trigger wheel. The DTA software enables you to take an oscilloscope reading of the output from the sensor but it refused to do so. I looked at every other setting and could find no obvious problem. DTA had created new mapping software to go with the new range of ECUs, but it wouldn't run on my ancient laptop. I bit the bullet and bought a new cheapy laptop running Windows 11 (whatever that is. Why don't they do software to run on a Mac?) and still the oscilloscope wouldn't work. Graham at Rawspeed was at a loss, too, and arranged for Alex at DTA to do a 'Team Viewer' link with my laptop and as I tried to start the car, he was able to look at what was happening in real time. He, too, was surprised at the lack of response and in the end downloaded a whole new firmware system onto the ECU , looked around and discovered that the crank sensor settings were all wrong. A bit of 'black art' jiggery pokery and the oscilloscope finally 'read' the crank sensor. He left me to it at that point, but the engine still wouldn't start well, and ran poorly if it did. A new (correct) throttle position sensor didn't help, so I started to look further into the software and found two things: one was the the crank sensor setting had it shown as a VR sensor, whereas mine is a Hall Effect sensor, the other was that there was no fuel map loaded at all! The only reason the engine fired was because we had added extra fuel to achieve a cold start, but as soon as that fuel was used, the engine died. Reloading the original fuel map saw the engine burst into life and run. I drove the car up the road and back, 'accidentally' red-lining it in first as I came very sideways out of a road junction, and returned home a happier man.

The problem was that two days later I was due to compete at Wiscombe Park hillclimb again – a 190-mile round trip, plus four timed runs. At the stage I didn't trust the car entirely so took up Adrain Crawford's kind offer to use his rally 911SC again. The first run in dry-ish conditions netted a disappointing 53.16 (this time last year I'd have been reasonably happy with that), but the next was a 51.27, my second quickest up Wiscombe (previous best was 51.12, also in the 911). The third run, I shifted from second to fifth (don't ask...) but managed a 50.74, which I was delighted with. I figured that if I managed a '50' after messing up a gear change, I'd be able to do a sub-50 if I got my act together. My 64-ft times were quickest in class, but on the final run I blazed the tyres too much and then took a messy line round Martini to record...50.75!

Image
Pic by Nigel Cole

Next weekend I'm back at Wiscombe for the final car meet of the year, this time in the 914. I feel confident (if it stays dry) that I can beat these times in my own car. We'll see.

Oh, and hat's off to JWhillracer for coming second in class – I sensed he was disappointed. I'd have been ecstatic! :lol:

I've already started planning some changes to the fuel system as the pump is noisy (I'm fitting a new one this week) and I have a feeling that it is cavitating at times. To combat this, I will either fit a swirl pot and lift pump to ensure there is fuel available to the pump at all times, or buy a new tank and cut it open so I can add some baffles and an improved integral swirl pot. Decisions, decisions...
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rhd racer
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by rhd racer »

Speak to Bob and Clare at Concept Racing Keith, they made a custom baffled barrel tank and swirl pot for my 914 and custom mounts for the tank.


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93 964 C2
99 Boxster 2.5 > 2.7 hill climber

71 914/6 3.0 - gone

'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
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KS
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by KS »

Sorry everyone, it's me again. I know you've only had a week to recover... :lol:

So, the car now started but the fuel pump sounded horrible and I just didn't trust it. jwhillracer of this parish happened to mention he had a new swirl pot tucked away somewhere so I decided to go that route. New Bosch 044-style FI pump and Facet solid state low pressure (lift) pump duly purchased, I installed the system in the front boot (or 'frunk' as the colonials call it) and then retired to Williams Crawford's workshop where I finalised the installation, which involved removing the fuel tank to I could access the fuel lines and also replace the in-tank gauze filter. Glad I did because it was nasty. Turned the key and it all worked, bar one small leak. Get home to find another leak, fixed that (hence the mixture of correct hose clips and incorrect Jubilee clips!).

Image

The car drove fine on the 95-mile trip up to Wiscombe for the MG Car Club meeting, my wife Sarah riding shotgun (and bringing the good weather with her). It had rained during the week and a little overnight, but the forecast was good. However, Wiscombe takes ages to dry out so the first run was rather like driving on ice. I was pretty disappointed with the time (53.01) until I realised, looking back, that this was my quickest ever practice time at Wiscombe, regardless of vehicle. Everyone was commenting on how slippery it was, so I consoled myself with a cup of coffee and awaited the first event run. The car is certainly a different animal now, with far more 'pull' than before and little sign of bogging down coming out of Sawbench, the first right-hand hairpin. The Quaife ATB certainly made its presence felt as the tail kicked out with ease under power, unlike previously where the car uselessly spun the inside rear wheel each time. Time to reassess my driving style... The time was 51.79, which I thought was 'OK', but not great. It was, in fact, my fourth quickest ever time at Wiscombe...

Image

The launch time was poor (as it turns out, nobody was getting great times off the line largely due to the low track temps), so I tried to take things a little easier – this had the added advantage that the car was more settled as I tackled Wis Corner, the 90-left immediately after the start. Rather than finding myself being pushed wide, I could cut a lot closer. I still can't bring myself to take Bunny's Leap flat out, and lifted over the crest before getting back on the power briefly and then down into second for the gate and up into the Esses. Up into third and then keep hard left and down into second for Sawbench. Try to catch the tail so it doesn't hit the bank on the left then flat out up into third, brake hard and dive deep while shifting down into second for the final left-hander, Martini. Catch the tail and across the line in...50.48. By then, my quickest run ever at Wiscombe. Woohoo!

https://youtu.be/X8fJ46JWIXA

So, now it was all down to the final event run. Annoyingly, the GoPro failed to record, but I knew that being less gung-ho off the startline worked, and I tried to tidy things up through the Esses. I crossed the line in 50.13 – another PB and some 2.5 seconds quicker than last year's best. I was ecstatic even though I'd hoped to end the season with a sub-50 run. If the car had behaved itself earlier in the season, I am sure I would have done it, but ending the Wiscombe season with PB is alright by me. I got a handshake from jwhillracer (a bit like getting a handshake from Paul Hollywood on Channel 4's 'Great British Bake Off'...) and headed home with my mind buzzing about what next.

Image

So, just a two-day event at Tregrehan near St Austell on the first weekend of October to go...
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by Gary71 »

Excellent stuff Keith, glad all the fixes came together in time!
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by 911hillclimber »

Nice one. Love the 914 on steels!
48 next year.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by Lightweight_911 »

.

Excellent result !!

.
Andy

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- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
rhd racer
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Re: KS's hillclimbing odyssey

Post by rhd racer »

Well done Keith, glad it worked out. Just think what you’ll do on a nice hot and dry weekend! Car looks and sounds great


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93 964 C2
99 Boxster 2.5 > 2.7 hill climber

71 914/6 3.0 - gone

'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
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