PMO fuel injection questions:

[911hillclimber]

Looking at Xmas upgrades to my 3.2 in the Lola.
1
To the engine, PMO EFI appeals, simple swop for my current PMO carbs, all linkages are there etc.
Anyone on here fitted these and kept the 'analogue' ignition, ie distributor etc.?

What fuel pump has been used?
Does the fuel line need a return to tank to vent excess fuel line pressure?
What pressure regulator is used?

I'm about to look at the Clewitt site.

Is there yet a UK dealer for PMO or is it all from Design911?
2
Cams
Looking to swop out the stock 3.2 to 964. Doubt I can find good 964 cams now, all so old, so who makes the equivalent in the UK or can I get my current 3.2 cams reworked?

Obviously need to look into all this much harder, so just getting started.

[PeterK]

Graham
You can either get your 3.2 cams reprofiled or get 964 machined from blanks (I did the latter for my 3.2SS)

Carbs typically run at about 3.5 psi, whereas EFI runs at 3.5Bar. Do you have a 3.2 fuel pump lying around ?
Fuel return pipe depends on the regulator used - some just provide the required pressure at the outlet (like on your air compressor), others bleed back to the tank

If you're going to the expense of fitting EFI, why not enable the ignition - you'll already have the smarts and just need a trigger wheel arrangement and coil pack(s)
Peter

[greg356a]

Hi Graham,

Sticking with PMO carbs for the moment, I now use the OEM standard 7 psi Bosh fuel pump and also fitted a return fuel line back to the tank employing the PMO regulator. Still get a small amount of hesitation from low speed acceleration, rolling road tuning will probably sort. I also fitted the 123 distributor which gives a lot of adjustability for relatively low cost. I did get hold of PMO direct but actually found the carbs cheaper through Patrick Motor sports in the USA. So recommend higher rated fuel pump, return fuel line, and shop around for best prices on itb's.

[coomo]

Looking at Xmas upgrades to my 3.2 in the Lola.
1
To the engine, PMO EFI appeals, simple swop for my current PMO carbs, all linkages are there etc.
Anyone on here fitted these and kept the 'analogue' ignition, ie distributor etc.?

What fuel pump has been used?
Does the fuel line need a return to tank to vent excess fuel line pressure?
What pressure regulator is used?

I'm about to look at the Clewitt site.

Is there yet a UK dealer for PMO or is it all from Design911?
2
Cams
Looking to swop out the stock 3.2 to 964. Doubt I can find good 964 cams now, all so old, so who makes the equivalent in the UK or can I get my current 3.2 cams reworked?

Obviously need to look into all this much harder, so just getting started.

I have a pair of cams reprofiled to 964 by Dougherty.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164819514456

[911hillclimber]

My current PMO's are big, 5mm and 'drown' the 3.2 a bit, so a move to 46mm PMO EFI bodies could gain a bit on torque, maybe not power, but should be a better match.
I have a red pump, 3.5 psi and no return, but the tank in the '78 Lola has a return there, just blanked off.

I think the cost step to go the whole hog with the ignition as well is a fair hike as the fuel plumbing change from Halfords carb tube to aeroquip throughout is ££ plus a suitable pump, I don't have one in the garage oddly!

I heard 2 early 911's at the hillclimb last weekend and was VERY impressed by the way the engine ticked over and delivered on the hill which has made me wonder as ever about a change over Xmas.
Not sure what ecu to use, but Emerald appeals and the local rolling road is used to them.

As to the cams...
I don't know what they will add, just a lot of people change the stock cams to 964's.
What gains are there?

A set off Como is £900, as good as new. I would need to be sure there is a real benefit to this engine which remember is a hill climb engine where torque rules and so does wide open throttle.

Just cleaned the Lola this morning after Shelsley Walsh where I thought it was popping etc on the over-run quite badly, though the wife says she has heard it worse this year.
I checked the manifold to head nuts and some could have been tighter (they are K nuts). They do vibrate loose at times.

Ran the engine to temperature and checked the balance of each choke, all bang on the same. It sounded great too...

Lots to think about as always this time of the year/hill climb season.
2022 is only 8 months away after all!

[neilbardsley]

Sounds like a fun project but given the hp you are competing against I'm not sure an extra 10-15 hp is going to help?

Sent from my M2004J19C using Tapatalk

[911hillclimber]

Yes, you saw the problem first hand!
Car is a dinosaur now after 10 years on the hills, never going to be competitive.

I have beaten the mighty 5 Litre V8 Pilbeam at Loton, but have never beaten any of the others.

However, I might still win the Championship Class yet!

[Bruce M]

A little idea/thought prompt….
Last time I bang this drum, honest


Here is a fresh dyno plot, posted elsewhere.
Engine is a VW Type1 beetle engine, slightly oversized a 1641cc, with a WRX turbo (14psi boost), small intercooler & EFI. Engine has a few modest upgrades (cam, balanced crank, etc). DIY build.

[rhd racer]

If you wanted UK advice, supply, parts and aftersales on ITBs, why not talk to Jenvey Graham? I have not used an Emerald brain, but know lots that have, and they rolling road set up by 914/6 once after an engine change and they were really good.

HTH

Wayne

[911hillclimber]

I have just driven past their front door! They are very close to me.

As ever, the ££££ on this engine issue is irritating.

The cost to go injection/ecu etc is about £4000 when all done. I might be able to sell my big PMO's for something to off-set this plus a bunch of work needing specialist input.
I do not use specialists unless I really have to, but this lot will take some dialling-in.

Conversely, that Money will go a long way to rebuilding the long engine to a screamer where the carbs would work possibly better and save al the messing with electronics.

The screamer would fix a lot of frustrations, allowing to do hills with several gear changes less and more power.
This would result in better PB's

I can't get away from this dilemma.

[PeterK]

I used Jenveys and an Emerald ECU on my Zetec engined Lotus Plus 2. Pretty easy to get running (Emerald can supply base maps for a lot of engines) and I then had an hour or so on a rolling road to fine-tune the set-up.

The hardest part was dialling in the cold start - I ended up leaving the car with them for a week. They put it onto the dyno the last thing at night, fired it up first thing in the morning, and made a tweak. The car was then left outside during the day and put back on the dyno overnight again. Repeat the cold start in the morning and tweak - I think they only needed 2 cold starts and it was sorted. I could just reach into the car through a window, turn the key and the car started. Cost me another £100 IIRC.

[911hillclimber]

I want to get the most for my £, and the screamer engine still in the back of my mind.
This Eli move won't deliver much against a screamer on a hillclimb during the 40 seconds of running.

There is another element to this but I won't cloud this thread.

[rhd racer]

I certainly get you want to do it yourself, but unless the core Jenvey kit is loads more than the PMO one, I would be inclined to use the local guys. If you need parts, you can collect them in 15 mins, no duty or exchange rate to worry about etc etc, and proper aftersales care if needed. I would go and see them and get a feel for what they say; going huge may not be the best thing for torque. I would bet they have been involved with a bunch of hill climb cars and understand what is required.

My limited knowledge also tells me that you probably need to do the ignition side to bring the whole package together and optimise it. With the number of hot rod engines built all the time I would have thought your carbs and CDI boxes would make a good chunk of the investment required.

[911hillclimber]

The Jenvey bodies are £2400 for the 3.2 and the throttle connection cross bar would pass right through the flat fan.
Not the biggest of issues, but some messing, though on the front door is tempting!

[Lightweight_911]

.

From memory you've had this same dilemma at this time of the year for at least the past 5 years !!

If you haven't done so recently, have a read back through this thread from 3 years ago - with a particular note on the comments by Jonathan, MikeB & Paul Howells:

https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... s&start=15

One suggestion (which I know goes against the grain with you) would be to get someone else to look at your current gear linkage & see if there's any significant improvements to be made.

I know I didn't use it in competition but the gear linkage in my 904 was similarly 'torturous' but I found the gearchange - both in terms of 'positivity' & speed - excellent & that was with a 914-based 'dogleg' box.

Maybe worth having a word with Barrie Martin ?

I know I am a 'layman' as opposed to an experienced competitor but I still think that with a few minor mods (including just replacing the rotor arm with a higher rated 'S' item) & optimising the gearchange (whether that be Wevo internals &/or ratios) you'd get closer to your objectives* ...

*Let's face it you're never going to be entirely happy - you have to have something to 'tinker' with ...


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