1969T tastefully modified

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gridgway
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1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

If you believe that, you'll believe anything!

Here is the story of my car so far and now that I am writing it, it's a bit embarrassing, but hopefully one day (or year) soon I'll be able to sort that. And to explain, it seems like I have owned the car for 3 years. And in that time, I've only really done two trips in it! I just can't work out where the time has gone. The first trip was a lovely long weekend with Mrs R to the peak district and the second a lovely long weekend away to the rather strange land of Norfolk-shire! So all in all about 1000 miles in 3 years. That's just pathetic, got it off my chest anyway.

The short story of the car is that I bought it freshly restored by Lee Mayor (lovely chap) in Preston. He imported the car, a 1969 T from the US without engine and box and without an interior. Lee built a slate gray S "LeMans/Steve Mc" replica previously which he sold to David Beckham and this is a replica of that! It's got a 901 box (obvs) and an E spec motor on carbs. Even though Lee did a really good job there were a few things that needed doing so it went back to Lee for the winter of 17-18 and had some oil leaks done, some fettling to the box, new front shocks, couple of bits and bobs and the fitting of a rear arb and slightly stiffer rear torsion bars.

It's lovely. New interior with BF Torino seats, fabulous thin wheel, the box shifts well, the car runs well and has good mid-range oomph. I suspect about right for a 2.0E on carbs.

I wrote about my issues when the driveshaft came adrift. Fortunately the heat-exchanger that got mullered was the rusty one. So all good now and pretty much everything works (well the clock has a different length day). So what next...

The car has the essence of what I wanted. Delightfully light and adjustable, comfy, brilliant. But I can't get over the fact that I want a car with MFI. I just do. And if truth be told, I'd like it a teensie bit faster. Also the brakes (even though they are S spec) don't quite cut it for me. I changed the pads and put greenstuff in. Better, but still not as positive as I'd like. And then a bit more body control. Having the rear bar made a big difference and it's not tail happy (yet), but it needs the front kept in check.

Sadly there is a bit of bubbling under the offside headlight that I'll need to get attended to as well.

I'll post some pics now and then come back with the essence of the plan.

Graham
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

Arrival at Ridgway-Towers
ImageIMG_4085 by graham Ridgway, on Flickr
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

Last weekend, been well cleaned, clay-barred and polished
ImageIMG_20200711_160303 by graham Ridgway, on Flickr
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

The lovely rear, but the Porsche badge is attached on a wonk, that just enrages me!
ImageIMG_20200711_160401 by graham Ridgway, on Flickr
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

The interior complete with coco-mats

Also we had proper period door seals but the wind-noise drove me nuts. So that had to be changed.
ImageIMG_20200711_160320 by graham Ridgway, on Flickr
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

So what's the essence of the plan?

I have hummed and hah'ed about this a lot of the years of not having the wherewith-all to drive it. I looked several times at getting MFI for the E spec motor. I had thoughts of a rebuild to high compression S spec with MFI, all came to nothing. The some while ago, I spotted Richard Dell's for sale ad for a 2.4E motor built to S spec. And after a bit of faffing about I decided it could be right for me. It was in his car running and was off to the estimable Nick Fulljames to be replaced with the original motor for the car. Nick checked out the motor for me incl a rolling road and I am now the owner of a 2.4. Now I know it's wrong to put a 2.4 into a 69 car, but there's nothing of originality in the car really. Again I had ideas of a rebuild to high compression, maybe 2.7 or 2.8 spec. But then the rolling road results came back at 197bhp. It doesn't really matter the exact number, but that has to be perfect for me and no need for any gargantuan rebuilds.

So the plan is to swap the MFI motor in.
Fit a front arb
Bleed the brakes and look for some slightly more aggressive pads.
Sort out the slight paint bubbles on the offside wing

And then possibly fit the classicretrofit a/c for Mrs R. We had to pass up on a trip down to France as the summer weather was just too hot. I'm ok with the temp, but Mrs R most definitely isn't.

And to the first questions. What does an MFI motor need? What I know so far...
- different fuel lift pump
- fuel filter housing (sourced), what activates the solenoid that directs fuel to the squirters?
- return fuel line to the tank (somehow)
- overrun cutoff?

Any info or guides to other writeups anywhere, or photos gratefully received.

Cheers
Graham
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by jonno1 »

What a lovely car.

I know from ongoing personal experience just how difficult it is to drive them when one is down the rabbit hole of endless doom. :lol: The pedals are really very hard to reach from down there!

Never quite happy....always looking for the next upgrade to make it "perfect" and oops, there goes another year and I have only done a few hundred miles in it! MOT history telling the shameful story....

When will we learn eh? Good luck with it all :wink: Hope you get it how you want it. Just don't then sell it :lol:
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inaglasshouse
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by inaglasshouse »

gridgway wrote: And to the first questions. What does an MFI motor need? What I know so far...
- different fuel lift pump
- fuel filter housing (sourced), what activates the solenoid that directs fuel to the squirters?
- return fuel line to the tank (somehow)
- overrun cutoff?
Graham
Hi Graham

>> different fuel lift pump
Yep

>> fuel filter housing (sourced), what activates the solenoid that directs fuel to the squirters?
Ah well, sir is now in the mystical world of temperature time switches... A cunning system that, using a combination of engine temperature and time since you started cranking, decides whether it's a good idea to squirt raw fuel down the stacks.
My recommendation: forget it. You don't live in Alaska, I assume? It's conceivable that, unless you like an expensive bonfire, you might feel slightly uneasy about the idea of squirting fuel down the stacks.
In my experience (by which I mean experience of running an MFI car in the UK, including in winter, with the squirters disconnected) the other enrichment mechanism, on the MFI pump, has always been sufficient to get it going.

>> return fuel line to the tank (somehow)
Yep. Two hard pipes through the centre tunnel on mine. I have a front mounted fuel pump, as usual for a 69 or 70 car. No idea how it works on 72- with the rear mounted pump.

>> overrun cutoff?
Yep. Based on a switch on the linkage to detect closed throttle, and an rpm reading so that the cutoff operates only in a certain rpm range (fuel comes back on at low revs, so the engine doesn't stall).

Other stuff you probably know about:
- CDI
- enrichment mechanism on the MFI pump, activated based on temperature, using a warm air hose from the heat exchanger
- various relays etc on the electrical board in the engine bay, to control the above mentioned systems. See wiring diagrams.
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

Thanks!

Sadly, I don't even really have the excuse that I was too busy modding to drive it! What I should do is do all the prep now and do the engine swap over the winter. Mind you, I've got a journey to Kent and back on Friday and one to Southampton and back on Saturday. That'll double my yearly average in just two days.

Graham
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inaglasshouse
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by inaglasshouse »

Not exactly what you asked, but here's what I did to control the fuel shutoff from Jonny's CDI+ unit. Removes dependency on the 'speed switch', and means the rpm parameters are programmable:

https://www.safetycolours.com/porsche-9 ... l-from-cdi
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

inaglasshouse wrote:
gridgway wrote: And to the first questions. What does an MFI motor need? What I know so far...
- different fuel lift pump
- fuel filter housing (sourced), what activates the solenoid that directs fuel to the squirters?
- return fuel line to the tank (somehow)
- overrun cutoff?
Graham
Hi Graham

>> different fuel lift pump
Yep

>> fuel filter housing (sourced), what activates the solenoid that directs fuel to the squirters?
Ah well, sir is now in the mystical world of temperature time switches... A cunning system that, using a combination of engine temperature and time since you started cranking, decides whether it's a good idea to squirt raw fuel down the stacks.
My recommendation: forget it. You don't live in Alaska, I assume? It's conceivable that, unless you like an expensive bonfire, you might feel slightly uneasy about the idea of squirting fuel down the stacks.
In my experience (by which I mean experience of running an MFI car in the UK, including in winter, with the squirters disconnected) the other enrichment mechanism, on the MFI pump, has always been sufficient to get it going.

>> return fuel line to the tank (somehow)
Yep. Two hard pipes through the centre tunnel on mine. I have a front mounted fuel pump, as usual for a 69 or 70 car. No idea how it works on 72- with the rear mounted pump.

>> overrun cutoff?
Yep. Based on a switch on the linkage to detect closed throttle, and an rpm reading so that the cutoff operates only in a certain rpm range (fuel comes back on at low revs, so the engine doesn't stall).

Other stuff you probably know about:
- CDI
- enrichment mechanism on the MFI pump, activated based on temperature, using a warm air hose from the heat exchanger
- various relays etc on the electrical board in the engine bay, to control the above mentioned systems. See wiring diagrams.
Our messages crossed. Thanks for this, very helpful. Will digest and think.
The car currently has CDI, so that'll hopefully be ok. Always the possibility of an upgrade to a classicretrofit one too.
For the fuel pump, was it the same pump, just mounted at the front or the back?
Looks like squirters can come at a later date if needed. Love the idea of squirting fuel down though!
With the overrun cutoff, what gets cut to stop the fuel? Is it in the MFI pump?

Is there a good source of wiring diagrams do you know?

Thanks
Graham
gridgway
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

two messages crossed. That's very helpful indeed, thanks!
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inaglasshouse
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by inaglasshouse »

gridgway wrote:

Our messages crossed. Thanks for this, very helpful. Will digest and think.
The car currently has CDI, so that'll hopefully be ok. Always the possibility of an upgrade to a classicretrofit one too.
For the fuel pump, was it the same pump, just mounted at the front or the back?
Looks like squirters can come at a later date if needed. Love the idea of squirting fuel down though!
With the overrun cutoff, what gets cut to stop the fuel? Is it in the MFI pump?

Is there a good source of wiring diagrams do you know?

Thanks
Graham
Hi Graham
Yes, same fuel pump for all MFI cars, I believe.
Andy posted details here recently: https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 45#p612241

Yes, overrun cutoff is via a solenoid on the MFI pump.

Wiring diagrams here:
https://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WiringDiag.htm

Right, that's enough being helpful. Don't want to ruin my reputation as a chequebook restorer.

Cheers, Richard.
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by gridgway »

Don't think I can cope with any more to digest at the moment! Huge thanks.
Graham
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Re: 1969T tastefully modified

Post by 911hillclimber »

So, is the 2.4 actually now a 2.4S, pistons and cams from an S or has it the drivable E cams?

My second engine in my T was a 2.4 with S pistons and E cams/mech inj and was a fabulous engine though wicked fuel consumption, high teens at best.
Glad you have started a thread, personally I find running a thread focuses the mind and you get on and do things.

My 73T came to me with a rouge 2.2 on webers, another lovely to drive engine though painfully slow.
When the 2.4E/S mech inj went in it was quite easy and don't remember doing much on the electrics side, it had a stock CDI already, fuel return was already there, just added the solenoid/filter unit.

Sold the 2.4 to Majordad on here before DDK existed, and much of the other stuff to Ian Macmath, also on here today.

Wish I'd had kept the 2.4!
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