BIB5566

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KS
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Re: BIB5566

Post by KS »

That is VERY nice!
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RobFrost
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Re: BIB5566

Post by RobFrost »

Lovely badge. Who supplies the Kardex, and at what cost?
1970 911T, Signal orange (Restoration thread)
1988 3.2 Carrera backdate, Black
2001 996 Turbo, Lapis blue (am I allowed to put that here?)
I'm looking for a pre-impact bumper 911S or other high-revving 911 to restore - please let me know if you see one.
knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

RobFrost wrote:Lovely badge. Who supplies the Kardex, and at what cost?
Thanks Guys, Im really happy with the badge, only £50 on eBay too! I'll keep it until I can find an Ulster one.

"davep" on ESR is the man for the Kardex's but you can only get them up to 1969 so my car just about scrapes in. I believe that Porsche stopped using the kardex system from 1970. They work out at £140 at the moment. As its currently the only way I know of confirming matching numbers if you have a 69 or earlier and no birth certificate then you should be getting your kardex ASAP before whoever is leaking them to Dave gets fired haha.
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Im still finding little things to do on the car to make improvements. My car has continued to be a old git to start from cold. I can be cranking it for an age, often it coughs and hunts like its going to fire but then dies. I had earlier tried using my heated screen switch to actuate the enrichment solenoid on my 69 MFI pump by running a jump wire on the relays in the engine bay, to see if it made any difference. It did not. The other day I realised that the reason why is that when you turn the key to the cranking position the heated screen/heater blower etc lose their 12V supply. So the enrichment solenoid was switching off at the exact time I turned the key and needed it to be on.

Today I played with the wires on the back of the ignition switch so that now the heater circuit remains live even when cranking, along with the fuel pump etc. I pulled the switch, cranked the engine and it fired in 2 seconds. As soon as it fires I shove the switch back in.

Being able to start it super easy from cold now is a big relief, its no longer a big chore just to get it running... really happy I have the 69 MFI pump with the extra enrichment solenoid as this isnt possible with all the other pumps.

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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

A couple of more weekend tasks.

I put new plastic parts in my door strikers as they were all smashed up which it pretty typical I believe.

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I bought a leakdown testing kit and set about trying to do a test to satisfy my curiosity of what my engine is like. First thing I found out is that it is impossible to thread the flexible pipe down inside the head to the plug hole. You have to buy a solid extension piece. The next thing I found out is that the generic extensions that you can buy are all 200mm long and that is about 25mm too long to get it into the head without fouling on the chassis rail. You cant just hack it down because you need an o-ring to seal on it and the M14x1.25 spark plug thread is only ~15mm deep. After getting hold of the relevant M14x1.25 tap and extending thread deeper inside the extension I was able to take my extension to a friend with a lathe who cut it down precisely and put the o-ring chamfer in it and knurled the end. It now fitted perfectly, the knurling was important to be able to get it to seat tightly by hand but I guess you could have put two flats on it and used a spanner. You need to get the length just right as too long and it wont fit in, too short and you wont protrude from the head sufficiently to grip it. At this point I should say that I think there are special sized 911 extensions out there at 4x the price of my generic one, but when I bought it I didnt know the length would be an issue.

With all of the palaver out of the way with the extension mods, doing the tests was very straightforward having never done them before. I got about 15% on all 6 cylinders which for a used engine of unknown milage I thought was fairly decent. I was certainly happy that all the cylinders were about the same as they should be. Most of the pressure loss seemed to be going past the pistons with one or two cylinders I could hear a bit past the intake valves but not that much. Hopefully come the day I tear the engine down (whenever that may be) I can get away with just some new rings? I need to look into these things as I dont know much about that. In any case it is all food for thought and the test has been generally positive.

I have marked below where I cut the extension down
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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Went on a drive out to Wales today seeing as its the first decent day of 2022. Avoided Snowdonia, the land of traffic and speed cameras went through Denbigh and Powys and Shropshire hardly a car in sight!

How many litres of cider do we think its possible to fit in a 911? When I get to Herefordshire Im gonna find out!

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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Just finished my latest little job, replacing the electric fuel pump.

My car is running an ancient MFI electric pump that I dont have much confidence in simply because of their reputation for failing and the fact it is clearly original. I was thinking I ought to carry a spare as, if I break down there isnt going to be another one in the garage around the corner. However as you probably know, used factory MFI electric pumps are expensive to buy, and expensive to rebuild so getting a good reliable spare would be a lot of money to just sit in the luggage compartment.

I had heard it is possible to run the 84-89 Carrera fuel pump instead but not seen much detail on this swap. These Bosch pumps are available off the shelf and only ~£60 new. So I set to it. First I had to blast the car around to use up all the liquid gold from the tank before draining the remnants. Taking out the original pump was easy enough if you dont mind getting drenched in petrol. On my 69 it is located by the steering rack. The only fiddly part is all the convoluted 3-way piping which is easier when you are simply removing the lot. All the rubber pipe on mine at the pump was very old so replacing it all was a good idea anyway, I have new pipe everywhere now.

The Carrera pump simply has an inlet and an outlet, no third pipe. The plus is that it is mounted simply on the supply line to the MFI pump. The return line can simply go directly back to the tank and not via the electric pump which cuts down on the convoluted piping of the original. The down side is that 1) it doesnt fit in the original pump mount, largely because of.. 2) the inlet and outlet are on opposite ends vs the same end of the pump as on the original and 3) the Carrera inlet fitting is 12mm diameter vs my 8mm diameter fuel tank outlet banjo fitting

So you need to 1) fabricate a mount for the pump and 2) get a banjo fitting for the pump outlet and snake a bit of extra piping, 3) get some 12mm fuel pipe and a M14 banjo fitting with a 12mm barb (not easy to find but they exist).

I would have liked to weld a nice fabbed mounting bracket to the front subframe but doing so next to a fuel tank, loads of fumes, and spillages from draining it wasnt going to happen. So I had to bolt/strap it in some how. If the car was in bits I could have made a much more elegant solution, plus I wasnt 100% sure if this pump would work and whether I would have to revert back so what I came up with is rather rough and ready and I may replace it one day as and when..... I made a V shaped bracket to strap the pump to with closed-cell foam and welded some bolts to it (well away from the car) so that I could bolt the bracket on the subframe near the original position. It was a tight fit here clearancing the LHS track rod on full lock but it just about clears OK. I ran a new pair of wires to it from the fuse box and plumbed in the 12mm inlet pipe using the new banjo fitting on the fuel tank and 8mm outlet using std pipe. Finally the return line straight back to the fuel tank, again 8mm pipe.

With everything done, I put the left over fuel back in the tank, turn it on and it holds a spot on 11psi pressure! (side note - my in line fuel pressure gauge has been a great buy) Perfect! All for <£100, I can carry a spare for next to nothing and/or I can throw it away and by a new pump at the drop of a hat, plus its 100% reversable. Given I have a brand new modern pump I dont think I really need to carry a spare now anyway.

A couple of other small things I have fitted include a Fire Safety Stick under the dash and one of tp81 Toms coffee cup holders which I have enjoyed testing already!

In the first picture below you can see the line from the fuel tank outlet to the pump inlet is missing as I was awaiting arrival of the 12mm banjo fitting

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Lightweight_911
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Re: BIB5566

Post by Lightweight_911 »

.
I'll be interested in hearing how it performs once the set-up is complete - the original mfi pumps are rated at ~14.7 psi (1 atm) ...

.
Andy

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- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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Re: BIB5566

Post by deano »

I think this is great to know, thanks for sharing.

I'm not familiar with the fuel piping for the earlier cars (my pump is behind the rear seats) - did you have any crimped fuel pipe connections originally, and did you keep these or replace them with jubilee clips or similar alternatives along with rubber pipes?

Loved your Wales pics by the way - its such a great looking car...
Dean
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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Lightweight_911 wrote:.
I'll be interested in hearing how it performs once the set-up is complete - the original mfi pumps are rated at ~14.7 psi (1 atm) ...

.
Indeed I shall be testing at the weekend and shall feedback.

I'm not sure what the originals are rated at but the pressure spec as far as I know is 11.8psi +/-3psi measured on the fuel return line from the MFI pump to the console which is where my gauge is placed. Ive seen this quoted in numerous places. I think you can get different pressures depending on where in the system you test it which causes lots of confusion.

The psi in the system is controlled by the pressure check valve in the fuel console (which I had sticking issues with earlier in this thread) and not by the electric pump, assuming the pump pump is delivering correct flow as well. By all accounts these pumps are capable of maintaining much higher psi than required by the MFI fuel console system, the Carrera ran at 29psi on its EFI as far as I know. My old pump was giving me 10psi (its flow was slightly down on spec) on this same gauge and the engine ran fine, (future reliability was my only motivation for changing it out really), so I fully expect this to be at least as good as that.
knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

deano wrote:I think this is great to know, thanks for sharing.

I'm not familiar with the fuel piping for the earlier cars (my pump is behind the rear seats) - did you have any crimped fuel pipe connections originally, and did you keep these or replace them with jubilee clips or similar alternatives along with rubber pipes?

Loved your Wales pics by the way - its such a great looking car...
Cheers Dean!

Im sure the plumbing layout of the pipes are the same regardless of where the pump is mounted. I didnt have any crimped fittings it was all jubilees which I replaced with new ones. Crimp fittings sound like a load of pointless hassle to me.
knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Ok so my pump experiment has not gone well today. I got about 3 miles before my pump stopped running and stranded me. Fortunately at a local petrol station forecourt. The pump was red hot to touch. I was really looking forward to a big drive out today as well... fortunately I could walk home and wait for rescue there but I had the ignominy of the recovery truck home.

I was racking my brains what it could be, the pump is rated at 4 bar, way higher than what it runs at in this use. I spent my waiting time researching and thinking. The answer hit me from the fuel pump piping diagram.

I have mixed up the fuel tank outlet and return piping. You can see in the diagram that the return line is the lowest fitting on the tank and the outlet (to the electric pump) is about 1 inch higher. I naturally assumed the lowest fitting went to the electric pump but it doesnt, and Im sure you know why. All the crud in the tank sinks to the bottom. The lower return line wont have a filter on it inside the tank so my new pump was probably sucking in crud filled fuel.

Got it home in the afternoon, took the pump out which is a 20 min task, bench tested it, you can see it tries to turn but cant. I tried flushing it through to no avail so I took it apart by uncrimping the end of the canister and pulling the guts out, sure enough, full of crud. I cleaned it all out and got it turning again by hand but unfortunately the 2x big o-rings that seal it have swollen and now they are too big to put it back together. I could buy some new generic o-rings but im not sure how long they will last sitting in E10. For the sake of £50 I'll just take it on the chin, lesson learned, and buy another pump. I realise the irony that I have replaced the original pump for more reliability which has then stranded me! Its not the pumps fault though, and at least it was close to home and on a relatively inconsequential day.

What this means then is that you dont need the M14x12mm banjo fitting on the tank as that is the return line fitting and the standard 8mm fitting is fine. The outlet fitting which is also 8mm is not changeable so I will need a 8mm-12mm adaptor to fit the replacement pump. Im very confident it will work fine when not full of crud!

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jwhillracer
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Re: BIB5566

Post by jwhillracer »

If you haven’t already done it, take out the filter from the bottom of the tank and clean or replace it. They gradually block up with crud, and so you appear to have run out of petrol while you still have nearly an indicated 1/4 tank full in there.

Always at the least convenient moment, obviously!

JW
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neilbardsley
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Re: BIB5566

Post by neilbardsley »

Thank you for providing great detail on this thread so the rest of us can learn.

Love the green but ivory is a very nice colour

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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

So second go around with the fuel pump appears to have been successful. I put the original return banjo fitting in place at the bottom of the tank and piped it up and I used a 8mm-12mm adaptor to pipe up the outlet of the tank to the new fuel pump. I ran the pump for an hour without an issue, it held 11psi fine. I went for a drive today for an hour and the car has driven great as normal. Im confident this pump will work for MFI perfectly when piped up correctly! So a trying exercise in the end but I now have a fuel pump that costs very little and that I expect to have modern Bosch reliability. Its also quieter than my original.

This weekend I also got my 380mm steering wheel back from Johnathan, (jtparr). It has been well worth the wait, the workmanship in this is fantastic, far beyond whatever I could dream of achieving. I highly recommend contacting him to get your wheel recovered. The 380mm wheel sounds like a small difference but I find the extra leg/knee space very welcome and the car feels a lot more agile with the smaller wheel vs the stock bus wheel.

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