Tiekan Takon wot

[Ignatzcatz]

Just seen Jay Leno's take on the Tiecan (that's how they say it, not TAYcan it's Tiecan as in tie me kangaroo down sport) OK we got the pronunciation right if not the spelling, so Jay Leno, who I find very droll and eminently knowledgeable, had a Turbo S model to run around Los Angeles in with some bod from Porsche in the passenger seat to answer his questions. And the first query was why the name turbo when you can't put a turbocharger on an electric motor. Just previous association with power and Porsche was the general answer. So they cruise around LA and then back in the garage after looking at the trunk and the dash and other bits Jay actually ran out of things to ask. You could almost think what he was thinking. Pretty car, fast car, but sooo boring.
The Porsche guy already said that most of the people who have signed up for this car already own another Porsche, so the Tiecan will be a toy, it's just something new, a must have amongst the wealthy, a mere designer label. I just cannot see the practicality of this car or in fact any limited range electric car. Especially in the States where journey distance travelled can be much greater than normal UK trips. I recall when I worked in the States one of my colleagues commuted from Philadelphia to Newark airport New Jersey on a daily basis. This was something fairly normal. It would be impossible to use an electric car for that sort of journey unless you had fast charging stations all along the route.
So will this car save the planet? There will have to be a massive game change for there to be any noticeable effect. I did read that if all the internal combustion powered cars on the road today were replaced by electric vehicles the production of this identical number of electric vehicles, and we are talking in the millions, would cause a far greater pollution problem just through their manufacture alone. Whatever, just go plant a tree.

[Bootsy]

EVs have a long way to go but not as far as the infrastructure to support them all!

I had the misfortune of reading a Tesla FB page the other day - WOW! The fanatics are exactly that, they think Musk is the messiah and who dares challenge EVs, where the power will come from etc. gets shouted down in flames.

Strange times

[Jonny Hart]

Any counter argument against any emerging technology is daft unless you have a crystal ball.

The only constant is that resources on this planet are limited. Crude oil, lithium etc Luckily, ingenuity is not.

Regardless of the energy storage medium, vehicle drivetrains will ultimately be electric. What we are doing now is a necessary stepping stone, nowhere near the final solution. Think how far the ICE vehicle has come in 100 years. We are effectively in the 1920s for EVs now.

[hot66]

I listen to the smoking tyre podcasts every week ... being California based its interesting to hear their take on things ... apart from the fact they have a serious dislike of Eaon musk, they do admit Tesla’s make complete sense in the city ( although a scooter even more sense) . Matt did a one take drive of the taycan turbo up in the hills and did like it a lot, but even he said it was too fast. Discussion seems to be they would prefer to sacrifice ultimate performance for more range. Recently quite a few of the guests use hydrogen cars ( only legal in California I gather ) which have better range but even in LA there are only a few refill stations.

Which leads on to what Bootsy says ... infrastructure of charging. We run a plug in hybrid and charge 2 times a day at home ... purely have the car because of the BIK tax break . I thought about going full electric for the new car but this one is doing 25k miles a year and we just don’t need the extra hassle or have the extra time to plan long journeys around charge points. So a new hybrid is coming again ... maybe things will be different again in another 2 years time ? .... of course at some point the tax breaks will get removed

[Chris_911]

Hydrogen.....

[jeremyg]

I see Evo magazine have an article about bio-fuels for your “legacy” ICE’s being the emissions-mitigating way forward for our old motors. Such a recycling approach would hugely cut new production emissions too, and avoid the conveniently forgotten about problems of rare metal extraction and toxic battery disposal...

[911hillclimber]

2 recent Sunday Times articles (ie 1/2 page editorials) put all the facts down on paper, from Car design to mineral extraction to make them Then the evil question of charging, where will all the stations come from in time for all these wonder cars.
It was not good reading for the Pro EV lobby.

It will cost as much to give charging STATIONS (let alone put power to them) as the HS2 will cost, and about the same time table.
It covered the tax losses until the Gov comes up with another net to catch us all and the £££££££££££££ needed.

When the only alternative is volts, the charges will be piled on.

I still think people will be rationed on personal travel. Cut down the miles and the fuel required will come down with it.

About 8K miles/year/licence holder. Couple in a house, no kids old enough = 16K miles a year of freedom. Probably palatable?

[Timo]

and avoid the conveniently forgotten about problems of rare metal extraction and toxic battery disposal...

This is exactly the problem for me, the big push for EV is no different really than the big push for diesel that we saw a few years back. Its not the answer, everybody knows its not the answer but we all buy into it because we like shiny new stuff. Ultimately we all need to stop buying so much new stuff and make better use of what we already have, obviously this kind of thinking would create less growth to the economy, so wouldn't sit well with our governments way of thinking.

[Sam]

i reckons we might just be at the tipping point of realising bigger isn’t better and infinite economic growth is not the answer to human happiness.

[911hillclimber]

Indeed, the EV /transport issue is far more than just fumes.
I cannot help but think the environment chaos we have now is irreparable, the plastic is in the sea and will never be removed, the Co2 is all there and there is nothing to remove it as we cut everything down that does.

Diesel fumes kill people, there are 7 billion of us, CO2 kills the planet, there is just one.
Human activity as the phrase is can be the only reason for this state of affairs. It is too big for the human race to fix now, Mother Nature might come to the rescue.

We do need to keep things longer, repair and not replace more.

On Top Gear I think Harris said there were 4 places in the UK where you could fast charge a Tiecan thingy. A full charge from empty at home took 2 days?

The EV vehicle and system is deeply flawed.

[Jonny Hart]

https://www.nationalgrid.com/5-myths-ab ... les-busted

[tim69s]

I recently bought a full electric B class MB, 3 yrs old, and we love it.
For the purpose it was bought for, local run about, school runs and wife to work, it is perfect. The range is only 100 miles so it is never used for long journeys, we still have an oil burner SUV for those.
I have a home 7kwh charger which will charge it in a few hours overnight for less than a quid (special EV night time tariff).
Athough it is actually very nice to drive and feels like a grown up car, range anxiety is very real and it's clearly v1.0 of EVs. However I realise I am an early adopter and therefore am realistic about expectations.

BUT, battery technology is going to improve at a startling rate in the next few years, the billions the car industry has been forced to invest, by Tesla, will push range and charging speeds through the roof in the next decade. Once range is higher than the miles you can physically drive in a day, and 500 miles worth of charge takes 10 minutes, the argument is over. This will happen in the next 10 years.

Personally I am very excited about it. We all will still be able to have our classic petrol cars for fun, but maybe we'll have to tow them to a track to get our fix of flat 6 scream.



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[911hillclimber]

Good to read.
I can't see the power source meeting demand from power stations where ever they are.
Will we buy the juice from the EU?

[tim69s]

Lots more wind and solar is the only real option for now, nuclear stations take too long to build and are ridiculously expensive.

On top of the extra load for charging EVs, there's the need to start phasing out gas boilers for heating and replacing with electric alternatives. That's going to pose a really big problem for the grid.



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[Gary71]

If from today we buy only EV cars (based on current purchase rates for all cars) it will take 20 years to replace the European vehicle fleet.

ICE still has a place and alternative fuels sources such as synthetic and hydrogen are part of the future plan.

Plug in hybrids will also play a big role for a long time to come. Towing capacity and range for larger vehicles is challenging, even with the next two generations of batteries, so we have to have an alternative to meet demand.

I’ve just ordered a Passat GTe on the company scheme as the policy has shifted so my continuous line of S4s and Golf R/GTi over the last few years is no more!

Need to get than socket fitted to the front of the house soon!