DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

So today in faffing with my 69 T brakes, I took a wheel off. I've really only just started maintaining the car. I bought it, did a bit of summer driving, sent it of for a winter of snagging and that took a year, so now it's back, I'm starting to do stuff.

Surprisingly when I loosened the wheel nuts, they didn't loosen easily and then when the initial tightness was broken, they were all stiff. So I carefully took them off.

They are the lightweight alloy wheelnuts and the threads on the studs are very dry and dirty and at least two of the 5 have picked up. Argh.

So I am presuming that these alloy nuts are not original and that there are normal steel nuts. Is that correct?

Would these https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod1262 ... 928---924/ be the same lightweight ones or are they 'normal'?

I took another couple of nuts off another wheel and they have the same problem so I'll need to sort it out. Any recommendations gratefully received.

I wanged the 3 nuts back on which was pretty vile, but that'll be ok to drive for the time being won't it?

Cheers
Graham
PS I did no such thing of course. I cleaned the studs and the nuts carefully with WD40 and 3 go on ok. So that'll hold the wheel on with the car in the garage until I get them all off cleaned and new ones on

I, like many, have used the steel open nuts for 3 decades and with a smear of grease or a touch of copper-slip all is well.
May not look so good, but those alloy nuts will mark instantly even with a soft socket.

Make sure you don't over tighten the alloy nuts and don't let a garage use a rattle gun! 94-96 ft-lbs is the correct spec.

Wow 94-96, that feels huge for alloy nuts!

This was "discussed" semi recently , and of course those of us who use cira 65ft lbs were shot down (ish)

I agree with you - it feels huge too .

Have used 65 ftlbs only for about 25 yrs and on competion Porsche too , without any issues ... so I'm still learning , your call , but the figure quoted is correct !

I still have the wounds...still using 65 lbft on my Cookies with the steel nuts, still nothing has fallen off after 30 years of competition and 70k miles of UK roads.
I'll heal eventually.
I thought I was alone...

Torquing those ally shell nuts to the factory torque is painful and why the anodising marks so quickly.

I bought a set of the similar alloy nut set from Type911 and have had no problems with them, the car has done track days, the occasional hillclimb and fast road driving on bumpy Irish roads. I use one of their “soft” sockets along with a Teng3/8, 8 inch bar




I doubt I get it up to 65 lbs, but have never chipped the nut or had a wheel come loose.

PS I am of a slighter build than Cortina, so no chance of me wringing a nut

What is all this pounds shillings and pence stuff? It's 127Nm and it doesn't seem that bad. I think the centre nut used on the GT3 is 400Nm!

bjmullan wrote:What is all this pounds shillings and pence stuff? It's 127Nm and it doesn't seem that bad. I think the centre nut used on the GT3 is 400Nm!

speaking personally , my arm is calibrated in ft lbs , not Nm ... and I have developed a "feel" for when something is getting too tight (as it were)

PS. Very small gaps are measured in thou's , all else in mm .......................... hmmmmmmmmm

Sorry guys.

The spec is 130 nm or 94lbs for a reason ( calculated by clever engineers).
So long as the ally nuts are good enough to prevent your wheels from falling
off they are good enough to take this torque without complaint. If the outer
part of the nuts is turning to dust they should be in the recycle bin and new
nuts fitted. The same if they have been cross threaded or driven on at 250nm
with a rattle gun!
On a road only car, or a car used gently on track ally nuts are absolutely fine.
On a dedicated track or race car I would use nothing but steel nuts torqued
to 100lb
65lb is definitely not tight enough!

Just my 2cents after a couple of Stellas

Cheers.

Andy

Hmm
Been looking at these
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... -nuts.html
Thoughts anyone?
C

Black titanium..v nice.
The VW ones commonly used are forged steel. Doubt the weight saving is relevant really or reduction in rotating mass, but would look great and last forever.
Bet you can use the factory torque too!

As an aside and why I used them is for Motorsport you have to be able to show the end of the wheel studs when scrutineered, and why technically the stock Porsche nuts cannot be used.
Irrelevant for a road car.

andytat wrote: The spec is 130 nm or 94lbs for a reason ( calculated by clever engineers).

I know we might be repeating old ground, but I do wonder what that reason is.

How the right torque is calculated. I had always assumed it was to do with the size and material of the nut and bolt. So something that generates the right amount of stretch in the bolt. So essentially the tightest it can be.

But (how) is it actually related to whether the nut will come off or not?

Graham

Ahhh...
Been through that thought many times.
On my Lola it has centre lock nut and 6 peg location.
I use 65 lbft and Porsche use a much greater torque.
Never had one loose yet, but it is a race car.

10mm stud and a normal nut, most 10mm bolts on a 911 are about 65 lbft, sure to be exceptions.
I'm not worried, been ok for years and decades.
I am assuming my torque wrench is accurate mind! That opens another can of worms, covered by Chris this nut came round a few months ago when he slapped my wrist!

Do you use 65 on your centre lock Graham? We use 110 on our ff2000s and we used 220 on the radical.
Graham