Modern GT/RS - Which one?

[yoda]

I know some of you guys have got a modern Porsche RS or GT in the garage to go alongside the early car.

Which gives you the closest feeling to an early car in terms of light handling, responsiveness, revvy engine, feel etc?

I have had a couple and driven several but never found anything quite as enjoyable. Interested to know what other people have tried and what they liked.

Merry Christmas!

[Simon Rudge]

Sorry to say, whilst the newer cars are quicker, handle better, less drama to own and so on, they do not come anywhere near the sublime feel of a properly set up early car. I have drive most variants of the moderns both on the road and track and have come to the conclusion that progress is not always the best.

The problem in my eyes starts with weight, you simply cannot change the laws of physics. beyond that, the marketplace demands for both safety features and convenience features have all worked to dull the experience. Having said that, if I had to do either a regular drive or a real long one for a purpose, a modern is the best by far.

Just my thoughts.

[smallspeed]

this is the issue generally now a days - possibly less so with Porsche as they are pretty good at keeping the weight down, but ultimately new cars are heavier, leading to bigger tyres, more power, bigger brakes, etc and it becomes a bit of a spiral.. I think (WARNING : broad brush comment ahead) cars have too much grip and too much performance now to actually be that enjoyable on the road.. I drove a new focus rs last week and it was ridiculous - it’s not even THAT quick in comparison some of the cars out there, but it’s basically a point and squirt machine and I was bored within 15mins once I’d got over the grip and acceleration and wrc noises

I think the older cayman, z4mc, 350 or 370z et al are kind of the last of the characterful cars - unfortunately emissions regs seem to have killed bigger NA engines, and again their performance isn’t really exploitable on the road either - my z4mc will do over a ton in 3rd for example.. It’s going up in value right now, and once it hits the £ value I have in mind it will most likely be replaced with something slower and more fun, probably a Ginetta G40

[964RS]

Its like comparing chalk to cheese Feroz...none of the modern stuff is anything like an early car at all in reality

[911hillclimber]

Only driven 3 Porsches.
My 1973T with (now) a 3.2 in it, all modified and true to the early car. It was better with the screaming 2.4S/E engine.
Drove a 964 during a trip to Porsche HQ down south. Unbelievably good (in comparison) as it went, stopped and rode fantastically.
Finally my Boxster 2.9 Gen II.

911 and Boxster are both brilliant for very different reasons and imho very complimentary.

The best car for me is the Boxster.
The nicest one is the 911 in the 6 summer months

Having the two is bliss.

However, with all the traffic (unless you live by Hot66) both cannot be fully enjoyed on the Public highways enough to justify them, so anything sub 6 secs to 60 is pointless, something that can thrill every now and then between speed limits/traffic is something to savour when you can. Driving through Europe is worse.

[majordad]

I've had ZT 911 , my 2.4S for past 30 years, including over ten spent rallying and racing it. Since 2007, I 've owned this lot:

2007 997 GT3 comfort spec 2007-2013 . 30,000 miles , Euro trips, some select track days. Great car and the nearest to an older 911. Way more comfortable on long drives.

2010 997.2 RS Clubsport 2010 - 2015 21,000 miles . Great car , a big step up in performance from Gen 1, gearing so much better, but the changes are slow, a bit like an old 911. Grip is excellent, noisey and difficult to hold a conversation. Gobbled miles on Euro drives.

2015 991 GT3 RS 2015-2017 The best in my opinion of the three, you can see this in the steering, acceleration, grip, and power. Lightning gear changes and the PCCB brakes were well worth the extra cost. On an alpine mountain passes drive last May with Clive ( Jaffa) it was very fast but also felt very big, maybe too wide for some of those roads. Looks wise, hte best.

The old cars are great, but in reality not that fast and feel fragile, I wonder would I survive a crash, A and B pillars finger thin and seats. Modern seats, especially the carbon buckets are strong and secure.

Modern colours are limited and a bit boring, even Lava Orange can look washed out unlike Blut Orange , but the Porsche Green of the 2010 RS is better in my view than Viper.

Buying the car : Modern GT3 cars are priced in the stratosphere, you'd get an old 911 a lot cheaper. With the higher cost comes higher insurance and tax, trackers and MOTs. You can end up driving around in something worth almost as much as a small house.

[yoda]

Interesting feedback, thank you. Not really a surprise as much of it echos my own experiences - too heavy, too much power, too much grip etc. The modern cars are very different to the classics of course but I am wondering if there is a sweet spot in the middle somewhere.

I like doing long road trips and am planning to do a few with my good wife - to the Alps, Italy, Pyrenees etc. She is very enthusiastic, travels light and can talk for hours - so far so good. I think she would appreciate a few comforts though and while she won’t say it, I think it might put her off a little if I took an older car with a bumpy ride and no air con. I’ve though about transporting the car for long dull bits down the motorway but that feels a bit like cheating.

I bought a GT4 recently thinking it might fit the bill but haven’t quite made my mind up. Very good at covering the miles, responsive etc but the engine lacks the drama and excitement the rest of the car deserves. I’ve not had a chance to really put my foot down so will reserve judgement. A 997.1 GT3 is similar money and might be a better bet. A friend has recently bought a 981 Boxster Spyder and really likes it. He thinks it’s a bit of a hidden gem and I am looking forward to trying that.

Had a 996.2 GT3 which I found too much hard work on U.K. B roads. Took it to the Alps and it was great getting there and on well surfaced roads but less fun elsewhere.

Majordad - you seem to have had a good try with the GT3 variants. I would want a manual car so do you think a 997.1 GT3 comfort is the way forward.

Smallspeed - Thought about an earlier Cayman with a few sporting mods but there is something nice about the ownership prospect of a proper GT / RS model I like.

Also though about a hot rod of some sort but don’t really like projects and can’t afford a Singer!

[hot66]

My wife has always enjoyed the road trips in all my Porsche's , but the 2.4S has always been the preferred choice as we find it really comfy

[911hillclimber]

Actually, that is a good point.
My 73T has a great ride and copes very well with UK roads of today and tomorrow as pot holes get worse with car weights and traffic volume.

The Boxster rides well over good roads, but you drive it like you ride a bike with one eye on potholes on most B roads and some A roads around here.
The Boxster is very useable and very safe feeling, my ex-hillclimb 73T still has it's 6 point roll cage in it I think for good reason, but I can't wind the windows down with the doors shut!

The early cars are so small on the outside yet right on the inside.
As I commented, to have both in the garage is a bonus.

[smallspeed]

Smallspeed - Thought about an earlier Cayman with a few sporting mods but there is something nice about the ownership prospect of a proper GT / RS model

I completely get that - I think your gt4 cayman might actually be the sweet spot of the caymans. if I’m right it’s one of the very last NA engined ones and has a manual box?
Maybe if you gel with that car but it lacks a little drama, a fruity exhaust and a remap might get you where you want to be?

[one-two]

A series 1 996 GT3 retains a surprising amount of old 911 feel, though I agree it is a bit unsettled by uneven surfaces. I also think the 997s are starting to be seen as benchmark cars. The RS's have the investment potential, but a 997.1 GT3 is a great all-rounder

[210bhp]

The best car I drove was a 993RS. Hardly a ‘modern’ but truly a drivers car with a sublime comfortable experience with just the right amount of power and grip and a close visceral input to an ‘early’ car due to its size, noise and familiar cabin.

Regards
Mike

[majordad]

Comfort 997.1 GT3 is certainaily the most affordable of the GTs. Don't be fixated with manual, the gearchange is slowish and knotchy.

What I'd have against taking an old 911 on a long Euro drive would be what happens in the event of a breakdowm, getting parts might be difficult in a short time, it could ruin your holiday. I cheated last September, took the 2.4S on a trailer behind my diesel Cayenne ( halves the fuel cost ) as far as Stuttgart and continued on from there to Zell Austria in the 2.4 S leaving the Rig in Stuttgart/

[911hillclimber]

It is this kind of thing that bothers me about modern Porsche:

[yoda]

Smallspeed - Thought about an earlier Cayman with a few sporting mods but there is something nice about the ownership prospect of a proper GT / RS model

I completely get that - I think your gt4 cayman might actually be the sweet spot of the caymans. if I’m right it’s one of the very last NA engined ones and has a manual box?
Maybe if you gel with that car but it lacks a little drama, a fruity exhaust and a remap might get you where you want to be?

Yes, NA with 6 speed manual. I have been looking at Sharkwerks who seem to get positive feedback and have some exhaust tuning options. I think you are right, better sound might fix it as it is an otherwise excellent drive.

A 997.1 Comfort might also be a good option by the sound if it.

Would love a 993 RS but hard to find the right car at sensible money. Nearly bought a high mile car a couple of years ago and kicking myself now!