A sort of Barn(es) find
Moderator: Bootsy
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
A nice set of RSR-style strut supports made up my Greg Bailey (owner and restorer of a '66 S prototype).
Getting them aligned was an interesting exercise.
All sealed and ready for paint.
Getting them aligned was an interesting exercise.
All sealed and ready for paint.
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
A previous owner had at some point attempted to remove the 912 engine mounts. As with all the other repairs they attempted, the process involved welding over the offending section of rotten steel with new steel, leaving both to rot away together. It was a good strategy, if the objective was to ensure all the 'repaired' rot reappeared in a few years.
Cut out the bad repairs.
Bend up some 1.2mm steel and weld it in.
Opening up the longitudinals allowed me to remove a few kilos of accumulated blast dust.
I hope I've got the curve right....the arrival of new engine mounts will give me the answer.
Same both sides.
To get the engine mounts in I have to grind away these buggers.
Should be an interesting few hours....
Onto the front slam panel and suspension pan.
Cut out the bad repairs.
Bend up some 1.2mm steel and weld it in.
Opening up the longitudinals allowed me to remove a few kilos of accumulated blast dust.
I hope I've got the curve right....the arrival of new engine mounts will give me the answer.
Same both sides.
To get the engine mounts in I have to grind away these buggers.
Should be an interesting few hours....
Onto the front slam panel and suspension pan.
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Nice new slam panel from Eckhart Sportwagon.
Their prices and shipping are pretty good.
Homemade suspension reinforcement.
I seam welded all the outer fittings as well, to add some strength.
And welded up the tank support patch I had fabricated.
Then cleaned and etch primed
Sand, seam sealer and a top coat
Prep the fuel tank support
Weld it in....slow going in a confined area.
All ground down and primed.
Within a mm according to the swb chassis measurements I have. Not bad.
The front edges of the longitudinals were rotten (and badly repaired)
I took some measurement before I cut them out, but had to return to the chassis drawings to make sure I hand't measured off a bad datum....the front was very rotten.
My DIY chassis jig. There is a measurement listed from the bottom of the a-arm mount. I used this as a datum. Very high tech.
And welded on new steel to accept the front slam panel.
I took measurements down the length of the boot, on either side, to get the correct angle of the slam panel.
And started plug welding.
Amazing jig in action....
It was so nice to work with fresh steel.
One little blow through can slow you down...especially an amateur with a simple mig, like me.
The FBG fenders (fabricated by a 'master craftsman' who is now charging 6 figures for outlaws sold internationally...hmmmm) are so wonky that they don't give any kind of confirmation of my work. Oh well. What gaps there are I can fix with matt and resin. But at least I know the steel is reasonably accurate.
Along the inside. Indulged in a bit of seam welding.
The corners needed some work.
The mix of Epoxy Primer, Etch Primer, seam sealer and weld make a visual mess....very much against my OCD wiring. But it ended up strong, and pretty neat once everything was sprayed one colour.
And now a lesson in the perils of being tight, and stubborn.
So rather than buy the curved caps that cover the corners of the slam panel, I decided to make my own.
The following represents a full day's work.
...and then I fitted them and realised that while my effort was commendable, my craft needs work!
So I order two from Eckhart Sportwagen.
I had cut away the rot BS (before shrinker), so getting the curve right this time was much easier. Using my 'master crafted' FBG bonnet as a guide...
Rebuilt this section and welded in the caps
Same both sides
And then onto all the rotten section of the rain channel.
Lots of these.
And that was the end of the front end repair. Lots of cleaning up of welds and sanding before a single coat of primer, but done with the hard stuff.
Their prices and shipping are pretty good.
Homemade suspension reinforcement.
I seam welded all the outer fittings as well, to add some strength.
And welded up the tank support patch I had fabricated.
Then cleaned and etch primed
Sand, seam sealer and a top coat
Prep the fuel tank support
Weld it in....slow going in a confined area.
All ground down and primed.
Within a mm according to the swb chassis measurements I have. Not bad.
The front edges of the longitudinals were rotten (and badly repaired)
I took some measurement before I cut them out, but had to return to the chassis drawings to make sure I hand't measured off a bad datum....the front was very rotten.
My DIY chassis jig. There is a measurement listed from the bottom of the a-arm mount. I used this as a datum. Very high tech.
And welded on new steel to accept the front slam panel.
I took measurements down the length of the boot, on either side, to get the correct angle of the slam panel.
And started plug welding.
Amazing jig in action....
It was so nice to work with fresh steel.
One little blow through can slow you down...especially an amateur with a simple mig, like me.
The FBG fenders (fabricated by a 'master craftsman' who is now charging 6 figures for outlaws sold internationally...hmmmm) are so wonky that they don't give any kind of confirmation of my work. Oh well. What gaps there are I can fix with matt and resin. But at least I know the steel is reasonably accurate.
Along the inside. Indulged in a bit of seam welding.
The corners needed some work.
The mix of Epoxy Primer, Etch Primer, seam sealer and weld make a visual mess....very much against my OCD wiring. But it ended up strong, and pretty neat once everything was sprayed one colour.
And now a lesson in the perils of being tight, and stubborn.
So rather than buy the curved caps that cover the corners of the slam panel, I decided to make my own.
The following represents a full day's work.
...and then I fitted them and realised that while my effort was commendable, my craft needs work!
So I order two from Eckhart Sportwagen.
I had cut away the rot BS (before shrinker), so getting the curve right this time was much easier. Using my 'master crafted' FBG bonnet as a guide...
Rebuilt this section and welded in the caps
Same both sides
And then onto all the rotten section of the rain channel.
Lots of these.
And that was the end of the front end repair. Lots of cleaning up of welds and sanding before a single coat of primer, but done with the hard stuff.
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
I decided to stitch weld the seams inside.
How on earth this is done without having acid dipped the shell I don't know.
The remaining bitumen sealer sits between the pan and the sills / transmission tunnel, and build when you hit it with the welder, rendering the weld useless.
So I had to use the first weld to boil off the bitumen, then grind down the mess and lay a bead on top of that. nasty work, but it came out okay.
Out a trade together with a whole bunch of impact bumper parts I have collected and ended up with some nice bits, including an OE alu engine lid. Nice detail for the the lightweight theme. I've managed to find some RS alu callipers but they are rather dear....but I need them!
I have kept all the rot I've cut out over the last 4 years.
The plan is to lay it all out when I'm done and have a look.
In the meantime here it is in one container: a large black bin.
Fixed this DIY job.
Created one opening and worked the edges over.
How on earth this is done without having acid dipped the shell I don't know.
The remaining bitumen sealer sits between the pan and the sills / transmission tunnel, and build when you hit it with the welder, rendering the weld useless.
So I had to use the first weld to boil off the bitumen, then grind down the mess and lay a bead on top of that. nasty work, but it came out okay.
Out a trade together with a whole bunch of impact bumper parts I have collected and ended up with some nice bits, including an OE alu engine lid. Nice detail for the the lightweight theme. I've managed to find some RS alu callipers but they are rather dear....but I need them!
I have kept all the rot I've cut out over the last 4 years.
The plan is to lay it all out when I'm done and have a look.
In the meantime here it is in one container: a large black bin.
Fixed this DIY job.
Created one opening and worked the edges over.
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
You have been working hard!
I was just thinking 'how did he ensure the front was on straight' when you showed the jig bars etc. nice job.
Good progress!
I was just thinking 'how did he ensure the front was on straight' when you showed the jig bars etc. nice job.
Good progress!
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Cheers Hillclimber.
Using the DIY jig seemed like the bets plan.
I'm still trying to get up to the present!
Almost there.
Using the DIY jig seemed like the bets plan.
I'm still trying to get up to the present!
Almost there.
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- DDK above all
- Posts: 150
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Always nice to get a visit from some locals...
Stumbled across a set of these (incomplete set that is)
3 x 5.5 from late 60s / early 70s and 1 x 6 for the mod 80s.
Idea is to run 6s on the back (or have them widened to 7R offset) and use the 5.5s on the front.
Small problem with the plan....having only one 6".
I had difficulty explaining the logic to the Missus.
I have 3 x 5.5 Fuchs
I have 3 x 7 Fuchs
I now own 3 x 5.5 Steelies
I would have to agree with her......
They are lovely though.
And buying one more 6" steelie is a lot cheaper than buying another 5.5 Fuch (let alone finding one!)
My poor neglected SC. First child syndrome. You get all the attention when there is only one. But when the new kid arrives....
The mess that is the underside....a real frankenstein.
The next big job was reattaching the clipped rear fender flare.
The flare was in reasonable nick, but the edge of the 1/4 panel was not so lucky.
I have tried to ignore this for so long, even thinking I would outsource it.
Then I hatched a cunning plan.
Attached an extended leg to the shrinker.
Worked the edge to get it even (post weld demo)
And then spent a few hours lining everything up.
Took me a while to get a handle on how the pieces influence each other.
To get the front edge of the flare to sit properly I had to cut through the lower fender patch and leave it open while I welded in the flare. It kept wanting to pull in the front edge of the flare / fender / lower door lock post.
Something to do with compounding errors I guess.
Then onto the slowest welding I have ever done.
The benefits of being skinny.
Great entertainment for the wife when a ball of molten steel comes off the weld and goes into your shorts.....not exactly health and safety clothing....perhaps the reason the photos are blurred. She got her money's worth.
This little piece of copper helped a lot.
The space was so tight I had to use one of those crap handheld masks.
Tacked in place
Not too bad. A little fettling and it was time to close it up......very, very slowly.
Turned the car on its side to make things easier. Well, sort of. The benefit of a skinny frame was now undermined by having to fold a 6'2" frame into the opening....
Weld a spot. Make sure the seam is aligned. Tap here, dolly there. Repeat. 300+ tacks.
My tactic with welding from the inside was to avoid having to grind down a bead on the outside. The flare curve is so narrow that there really isn't room for error.
Lots of finishing work to be done (pinholes, penetration etc) but the approach seemed like a good one.
After some cleaning up and finishing
Rotten rear corner patched as well
Frankenstein from the side.
It's not perfect; there are patches where the steel has stretched or shrunk, but it will do.
Stumbled across a set of these (incomplete set that is)
3 x 5.5 from late 60s / early 70s and 1 x 6 for the mod 80s.
Idea is to run 6s on the back (or have them widened to 7R offset) and use the 5.5s on the front.
Small problem with the plan....having only one 6".
I had difficulty explaining the logic to the Missus.
I have 3 x 5.5 Fuchs
I have 3 x 7 Fuchs
I now own 3 x 5.5 Steelies
I would have to agree with her......
They are lovely though.
And buying one more 6" steelie is a lot cheaper than buying another 5.5 Fuch (let alone finding one!)
My poor neglected SC. First child syndrome. You get all the attention when there is only one. But when the new kid arrives....
The mess that is the underside....a real frankenstein.
The next big job was reattaching the clipped rear fender flare.
The flare was in reasonable nick, but the edge of the 1/4 panel was not so lucky.
I have tried to ignore this for so long, even thinking I would outsource it.
Then I hatched a cunning plan.
Attached an extended leg to the shrinker.
Worked the edge to get it even (post weld demo)
And then spent a few hours lining everything up.
Took me a while to get a handle on how the pieces influence each other.
To get the front edge of the flare to sit properly I had to cut through the lower fender patch and leave it open while I welded in the flare. It kept wanting to pull in the front edge of the flare / fender / lower door lock post.
Something to do with compounding errors I guess.
Then onto the slowest welding I have ever done.
The benefits of being skinny.
Great entertainment for the wife when a ball of molten steel comes off the weld and goes into your shorts.....not exactly health and safety clothing....perhaps the reason the photos are blurred. She got her money's worth.
This little piece of copper helped a lot.
The space was so tight I had to use one of those crap handheld masks.
Tacked in place
Not too bad. A little fettling and it was time to close it up......very, very slowly.
Turned the car on its side to make things easier. Well, sort of. The benefit of a skinny frame was now undermined by having to fold a 6'2" frame into the opening....
Weld a spot. Make sure the seam is aligned. Tap here, dolly there. Repeat. 300+ tacks.
My tactic with welding from the inside was to avoid having to grind down a bead on the outside. The flare curve is so narrow that there really isn't room for error.
Lots of finishing work to be done (pinholes, penetration etc) but the approach seemed like a good one.
After some cleaning up and finishing
Rotten rear corner patched as well
Frankenstein from the side.
It's not perfect; there are patches where the steel has stretched or shrunk, but it will do.
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
On to the filling and finishing of the fender repair.
A few shots of the progress. All told I must have spent a good 3 days getting this right.
I resorted to creating a few reference lines off the other side to get the contours right.
A real labour of love. Now it doesn't look half bad.
On my next project I'll hopefully have gained enough experience to get the steel right and not have to resort to using more than 1mm of filler.....a grand aspiration!
A few shots of the progress. All told I must have spent a good 3 days getting this right.
I resorted to creating a few reference lines off the other side to get the contours right.
A real labour of love. Now it doesn't look half bad.
On my next project I'll hopefully have gained enough experience to get the steel right and not have to resort to using more than 1mm of filler.....a grand aspiration!
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- DDK above all
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:00 am
Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Because I am stupid and like to make life difficult for myself....
And partly because I attended a 3 day metal shaping course.
Which leads to this
Which leads to this...
The end result will be something like this.
But the idea is that they will be made out of 2mm alu and be riveted to the door.
That's the idea anyway.
Which leads to this point of no return.
And partly because I attended a 3 day metal shaping course.
Which leads to this
Which leads to this...
The end result will be something like this.
But the idea is that they will be made out of 2mm alu and be riveted to the door.
That's the idea anyway.
Which leads to this point of no return.
Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
really nice job
you would have got there with the hammer form for the bonnet edge, the key being
a) clamp plate needed to be same diameter as the piece you are forming over, with so much shrink the metal moves up and 'inside' the fold line
b the form block, the piece you are forming over, needs to be at least as deep as the flange you are trying to form, there is a lot of shrink in that piece
with your ali, best is wood to form if you can run to a cheap 4x rivet gun and machine up a soft insert you will be flying (air chisel won't work as well), anything hard and it stretches to buggery. that steel door form will be a really nice piece, to get the last 10% if you find a piece of polypropelene, or acetal, linish it on the belt sander or with a sanding disc on the grinder to a v profile, its hard enough to move the material but won't leave a divot in the sheet.
you would have got there with the hammer form for the bonnet edge, the key being
a) clamp plate needed to be same diameter as the piece you are forming over, with so much shrink the metal moves up and 'inside' the fold line
b the form block, the piece you are forming over, needs to be at least as deep as the flange you are trying to form, there is a lot of shrink in that piece
with your ali, best is wood to form if you can run to a cheap 4x rivet gun and machine up a soft insert you will be flying (air chisel won't work as well), anything hard and it stretches to buggery. that steel door form will be a really nice piece, to get the last 10% if you find a piece of polypropelene, or acetal, linish it on the belt sander or with a sanding disc on the grinder to a v profile, its hard enough to move the material but won't leave a divot in the sheet.
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Good stuff - keep it coming
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Nice, very satisfying when that type of work comes out well.
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Thanks very much for the wisdom.arminius wrote:really nice job
you would have got there with the hammer form for the bonnet edge, the key being
a) clamp plate needed to be same diameter as the piece you are forming over, with so much shrink the metal moves up and 'inside' the fold line
b the form block, the piece you are forming over, needs to be at least as deep as the flange you are trying to form, there is a lot of shrink in that piece
with your ali, best is wood to form if you can run to a cheap 4x rivet gun and machine up a soft insert you will be flying (air chisel won't work as well), anything hard and it stretches to buggery. that steel door form will be a really nice piece, to get the last 10% if you find a piece of polypropelene, or acetal, linish it on the belt sander or with a sanding disc on the grinder to a v profile, its hard enough to move the material but won't leave a divot in the sheet.
Even though i did the shaping course, there was so much to take in that I am still trying to understand how the material moves when it's battered and beaten. Your explanation helps.
I have a whole bunch of improvements to make to the form and the clamping, um, plate that holds the steel in place.
The material I used was ply. Seems that superwood would be much better as it won't splinter at the edges.
Also, getting the pieces laser cut before they are formed seems like a much better idea, rather than using my unsteady hand with a mini grinder.
Alu is a new world for me (hardening, annealing etc). I've found some lovely old hardwood flooring pieces (parquet) which I'll shape as you suggest. The polyprop is a very good idea. Will try some test pieces and see what works best. The chap at the course had made up some alu tools. He's a master, but he swore by using alu tools as they leave little to no tooling marks on the piece when used correctly.
Thanks again for the tips.
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Cheers Sladey. Will do my best!sladey wrote:Good stuff - keep it coming
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- DDK above all
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Re: A sort of Barn(es) find
Learning a huge amount as I go.DustyM wrote:Nice, very satisfying when that type of work comes out well.
A luxury to be able to make mistakes and learn....don't get the chance to do this in my day job.
Cheers.