1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Ongoing and archived Porsche (and other marques) restoration threads from DDK members

Moderator: Bootsy

shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

I wanted to replace the smelly old carpet set (it was a cheap after-market job) with a nice new salt and pepper set. For a small car there are quite a few bits in a 911:
Image

By this time Classicfx was up and running, and Garry offered to let me borrow his templates:
Image


So in exchange for a couple of days helping with the new workshop I ended up with nice new carpets cut to size:
Image


Edging the carpets is a long process, here I am having a go:
Image


I also stripped the incorrect vinyl off the rear shelf and replaced it with something more in keeping:
Image


That's more like it; Joe had covered the rear quarter panels with basket weave to match the doors, and I used more leather off-cuts for the edge that wraps around the B pillar:
Image

Starting the re-fit:
Image

Joe had done a superb job on the seats; originally we planned to use perforated leather for the bolsters but were let down by a supplier, so the original Recaro material will do for now:
Image
(You can see one of the matching rear seat-backs in the corner)

I'd also used up the rest of the high temperature paint on the rear silencer:
Image

That turned out to be a mistake: using the wire attachment on the end of the drill loosened all of the baffles, and when we later started it up it sounded as if I'd stuck some large maracas to the back of the car!
Image

Next was engine install time, but meanwhile I amused myself with some detailing:
Image

C>
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
User avatar
silver911
Married to the DDK
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:14 am
Location: London

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by silver911 »

Fantastic looking seats....
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

Its coming up for self-assessment day so just time for a quick update.

Engine day and the car heads up to Mick's place near Horsham. I'm always very relieved to see the car in one piece at the other end after a trip on the back of a transporter:
Image

Near 250kg of exotic 'lightweight' alloys waiting in the sunshine:
Image

I'm never really sure how that big lump of engine fits in this small space....
Image

...but it does!
Image

"You missed a bit":
Image

Looking nice and clean:
Image

The MkI oil pipes - more to follow:
Image

Back at home (perfect stance something of a fluke - this is the good side ;-) ):
Image

C>
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
911hillclimber
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 18936
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by 911hillclimber »

Massive progress, and will be finished by the end of Xmas I recon. :)

Love the floor level ramp. Must make those drive shaft re-connections just soooo easy!
Great thread, love the DIY efforts.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

There's only so much working through piles of receipts you can do in a day!

Actually the posts above are a little out of sequence; the engine went in during July and now its the end of August and I've run out of time to meet my deadline.

So I shipped the car off to Jez at Carrera Performance with a short list of jobs to finish. The main one was to eyeball any safety related items (primarily brakes and suspension) this fumbling amateur had worked on, and set the suspension up properly. I also asked him to start the engine and check the settings on the PMOs before presenting the car for its MOT.

Another worrying trip on the back of a trailer:
Image

On the ramps in Horsham. Screw-ups on my part amounted to issues with the headlamp wiring, rear damper top mounts and incorrectly torqued steering rack. :oops:
Image

Engine start went fine and there were no worrying noises or leaks :bounce: Jez struggled a bit with the carburettor settings, but as the rings hadn't bedded properly the engine was breathing a little heavy:
Image

The car flew through the MOT :bounce: , and later that day ( I remember it well it was the 5th September 2015) I collected the car. :P :P

A quick trip down to Garry's for some posing and to affix the decals:
Image

Image

Remember Chris' image? The end result was very close:
Image

Then came the first proper trip. I made sure the Green Flag membership was renewed, packed my comprehensive tool kit under the bonnet (duct tape, cable ties, credit card, phone) and headed towards the M25, with number 1 son riding shotgun:
Image

It was a fantastic feeling to be back in the 911 after nearly two years. The car was now much quieter at speed thanks to the sound deadening (the radio still a waste of time over 50mph though) and the engine was a vast improvement in its new 2.5l form. And the interior was now a nice place to spend time.

Eventually we made it to Castle Hedingham. This time not for us the 'car-park of shame'; we were waved on to the hallowed turf!
Image

At the end of a long day meeting DDKers, chatting to Dickie Attwood and overdosing on all things pre'73 we headed back down to the south coast. There were lots of friendly waves as we cruised around the M25 and down the M23 before a cross country dash along the A272. When we stopped for a breather near Petworth the reason for all the waving became clear; the engine cover had popped open and was waving back to the following traffic :oops: :oops:
Image

But we made it!

Over the next few weeks I used the car as much as I could to put some running in miles on it. The snagging list grew, but at the top was the worrying level of oil consumption and crank-case pressurisation. It was also only doing about 12mpg :shock: :shock: Clearly something was not quite right.

Image
Temporary oil catch tank - not a really a good sign....

>C
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

So ignoring the funny smells for a while I got on with enjoying the car.

The seats were great, when Joe at Trimdelux put them on his FB page they got a record number of hits. Unlike pretty much anything covered in dead cow skin they're very warm in winter, cool in summer, supportive and comfortable for hours at a time. Although the pure wool fabric has shown some signs of 'bobble' they'll do for the light use the car will get:
Image

Image

I was still using the car whenever I could:
Image
Local pitstop

Image
Local pits

Annual cricket match
Image

I needed some shots for the agreed value insurance ("How much!!!!?")
Image

Image

Image

Image

The maracas were exchanged for a Dansk mild steel 'Sports' system. It's loud..
Image

but not too loud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipiu7y5y8iY

From above:
Image

However, it became increasingly difficult to ignore the various issues, most worrying of which was the car's thirst for oil. Before long I could no longer ignore it and hope things would settle down, especially when I calculated I was putting in a litre every 500 miles......

>C
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

The car was still not running correctly. The car started fine and pulled strongly, but the crankcase was clearly being pressurised and there was a noticeable change in the tick-over when I disconnected the oil breather.

After 1000 miles I changed to a 20w50 Valvoline in the hope that thicker oil would prevent the excessive oil consumption.

When I pulled them all of the plugs were like this:
Image
My hope was that the thin semi-synthetic oil in the engine, plus the clearly over-rich jetting was causing bore wash, preventing the rings from bedding into the bores correctly.

So next I booked a session with an engine tuner that was recommended to me. Based between Petersfield and Winchester, Tom Airey has been tuning cars since the 1970s, and certainly knows his way around a set of Webers (or PMO's excellent Weber derivatives!). While I was waiting his next customers arrived with a vintage Alvis that needed its SUs balanced!

Tom spent a couple of hours changing the jets; somehow the car had ended up with a mix of sizes, partly I suspect due to the previous specialists' efforts to deal with the oil fumes breathing into the carbs.
Image

Pick-up was much sharper after this session, and fuel consumption improved from the ridiculous to the extravagant. I ran through a running in programme once again, but oil consumption was still heavy, and removing the air-cleaners revealed the bases were swimming in a black oily mess :cry:

The ride-height turned out to be a little on the low side; the front arches fouled at full lock and 'speed' bumps were an ongoing hazard. I took the car to a local chap who had an optical suspension set-up system and claimed to have TB 911 experience. We agreed to return it to factor settings.

I'm still not sure what settings he used, but I could have ran the car on the Paris-Dakar rally:
Image

The suspension specialist and I had a word, and his second effort was an improvement.

Meanwhile I worked on the oil-lines. The first effort using Carrera 3.2 lines ran into clearance problems around the driveshafts so I had a flexible hose made up that ran from the oil cooler to the bypass unit:
Image

But there were still clearance problems, even lifting the lines as high as they could go:
Image

Eventually I discovered the solution; Porsche created it for the '74 2.7 Carreras which used the mag cased engine with a cooler. Its this bit: Image

The mk2 and mk3 lines:
Image

The mk3 lines successfully installed:
Image

The issues I had here are, in my experience, typical when you move away from a standard spec. rebuild. While frustrating and costly, I fully expected to have to undergo a bit of r&d with the car. At least I was able to call on the resources of DDK for assistance, and it was Nick Moss of Early 911 who put me on the right track.

Meanwhile the car failed its MOT :x
Image

Partly that was down to me being a Richard Head and failing to tighten the steering rack bolts properly (again :oops: ) and partly the MOT inspector being a Richard Head and insisting the car required two door mirrors. It didn't. Re-presented with the rack fully tight and waving the appropriate age-related exceptions in the inspectors face, it breezed the re-test.

I was after any second opinion I could get, so when Jonny Hart contacted me offering to let me try one of his replacement Classic Retrofit CDI+ units I jumped at the chance. He was looking for an early car to try a unit in, to ensure any installation issues were fully understood before full production started.

Jonny busting a knuckle or two fitting the CDI+ box:
Image

We spent the afternoon buzzing around his lovely part of Sussex. Certainly the car appeared to pick-up better, even if he commented that it seemed to be down on power compared to what he would expect. Eventually we agreed that I would run the unit in the car for a couple of weeks and report back (In hindsight he was right about the power; I'd noticed the engine note had changed but put this down to the exhaust bedding in. It turned out to be a head gasket on the way out...).

We're still not really sure what happened next. Half an hour after leaving Jonny's I'd just reached the M25 when the car started cutting out. This happened in fits and starts, sometimes it ran fine for several miles, but would then cut out several times within seconds. Each time the tach swept the dial as the CDI+ box re-set itself, and the engine re-started. This was bad enough cruising in top, but in stop-start Friday evening traffic on the M25 it was frankly a complete nightmare. Eventually I got the thing home, parked it up, shut the garage door and had a very stiff drink.

I couldn't fault Jonny's after-sales service. We exchanged emails and phone calls, trying various solutions, and a couple of weeks later he even came over to see me (by this time I was staying in Ascot) to try a software update and new cables. The problem appeared to be caused by an earthing fault, something the original factory CDI box would have been less sensitive too. It was pretty frustrating for both of us; and eventually we could only agree that there must be an underlying issue with the car that was causing the problems. I packaged up the CDI+ 'box and returned it, on the basis that we'd have a re-match once the car was sorted.

The garage doors stayed closed for most of the winter while Garry, Mick and I debated an approach.

Eventually we decided we had little option on the next step. One warm Saturday the following April we did this:
Image

Next step was to take a look inside the engine and see what we could find....

C>
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
User avatar
Jonny Hart
Put a fork in me, I'm done!
Posts: 1545
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by Jonny Hart »

This is a great thread Charles, I hadn't quite appreciated the journey your car had been on!

[We did finally manage to replicate and solve the CDI glitch. It was down to EMI on the programming cable, coming from the ignition leads. Worse with old leads or close proximity. All units with external cables now have improved shielding. The 'road' units never suffered from the problem as they don't have the cable. I still appreciate the level headed feedback you gave us to help get to the bottom of the issue. Ready for a rematch when you are! ]
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

Jonny Hart wrote:This is a great thread Charles, I hadn't quite appreciated the journey your car had been on!

[We did finally manage to replicate and solve the CDI glitch. It was down to EMI on the programming cable, coming from the ignition leads. Worse with old leads or close proximity. All units with external cables now have improved shielding. The 'road' units never suffered from the problem as they don't have the cable. I still appreciate the level headed feedback you gave us to help get to the bottom of the issue. Ready for a rematch when you are! ]
Thanks Jonny, I'll be in touch!

>Charles
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
MT
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1247
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: Gatwick

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by MT »

It is indeed a tortuous journey this car has taken Charles on - and there's more.......

..... but what added to the puzzle was the fact that (as you can see in the photo above) Mr. Airey has a rolling road, and the power tests showed 200hp+. So what could possibly be wrong with that! And even allowing for the fact said tests are indicative, not absolute, what could cause such a level of power output, but still burn so much oil and breathe so heavily.

Anyway I gave Charles a full cash refund on my labour cost to build the engine :lol: , and reluctantly agreed with the conclusion - it had to come out and stripped down to see WTF was going on.

Mick
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein

1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
murph2309
Put a fork in me, I'm done!
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: London

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by murph2309 »

And....and?

Great thread....

R
1971 2.2 S Targa viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37364
1978 3.0 SC Coupe
1970 VW Type 2 viewtopic.php?f=43&t=62339&p
911hillclimber
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 18936
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by 911hillclimber »

I've lost the time-line on this, but expect the engine is apart.

Or back together!

Did you do a leak-down test on each cylinder before it came apart?
Crankcase pressure usually means rings are not sealed or worse as I think you know, a leak-down would have given you a clue to which or which ones are leaking.
Looking forward to the up-dates. :)
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
Bruce M
Me and DDK sitting in a tree! KISSING
Posts: 2768
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:07 pm

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by Bruce M »

The hint was dropped previously, I suspect ...

Kokoparts = AA cylinders

Their machining tolerances can be somewhat variable.
shoestring7 wrote:

From Kokoparts in the US I ordered a precision engineered* big bore kit comprising 86mm JE pistons and cylinders

Once installed, they should push the compression ratio up from 8:1 to nearer 9.5:1, and increase swept capacity from the original's 2.35l to nearer 2.5l.


C>
*This might not be an entirely accurate description......
sladey
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 8758
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by sladey »

And........
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
shoestring7
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Goodwood, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: 1973 2.4T CIS Restomod

Post by shoestring7 »

April 2016; out the engine came again (the car was now in a roomier garage in Ascot):

Image

..and with the aid of some handy builders it was loaded into a pick-up I'd borrowed for the trip down to Mick's near Horsham:

Image

Within a couple of hours it was on Mick's stand and we'd* started the strip down:

Image

We found lots of black residue in the combustion chambers:
Image

One head gasket had failed:
Image

That probably explained the down-on-power engine and altered engine note. Luckily I'd run the car for less than a hundred miles in this state. A peer into the crankcase revealed that there were no bits of metal floating around, other than a single loose head-stud we could find nothing untoward in the way the engine had been built.

Some of the barrels showed signs of wear:
Image

...and there were signs that combustion had bypassed the rings:
Image

This time we didn't mess around - the case came apart as well:
Image

Thankfully, the bottom end look to be in excellent condition. But we needed a second opinion. I loaded up the pick-up again with the disassembled lump, and took it to a couple of experienced (professional) Porsche technicians for a look.

C>
*By which I mean I made tea, small talk and took photos will Mick did the spanner stuff
968C/968CS/'92 964C4/944t/924S Trackday shed/Cayman/964C2#2/'73 hotrod (gone)
Mini JCW buzzbox
Audi A2 Piech edition
BMW R1250GSA


http://thecarlistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
Post Reply