O/T & non-Porsche domestic electrical problem

[Mick Cliff]

It is well known that DDK is the font of all knowledge....

So, some help please.
I am in the Philippines and having problems with a washing machine. So far the 'repair man' - a loose term! - has replaced the circuit board in the newish (2 years old) machine and reports that it works OK in his workshop (not witnessed by me).
On re-installation at the house he reports that the voltage is only 180v and should be 220v so the machine won't work!

Now, the Philippines is not a trustworthy place and, as an interloper not speaking their language, i get the feeling that I might be being taken for a ride (not for the first time!).

The repair man is suggesting that I install an automatic voltage regulator (AVR) to achieve a steady 220v. Is this right?
I'm no electrician, but my instinct tells me you can't get a quart out of a pint pot! Or can an AVR output a steady 220v from an input of 180v?
I'm also told that the AVR should be rated at 3000W, to suit the heater element.

As a bit of background - the cable feeding the laundry area is separate from the main feed to the house and also feeds 2 adjacent huts (minimal electrical use, just lights and TV's I think) and is about 30 metres long. The cable size is 'small' (no bigger in diameter than my little finger) - could the cable size be the root of the problem?

Any help and/or guidance will be greatly appreciated (especially if that help is in Tagalog )

[Mick Cliff]

Anyone?

Pretty please!

[smallspeed]

I don't know much about electrics, and I know even less about the Philippines, however would something like this work?

[Nige]

I suppose the easiest thing would be to buy a voltmeter and check the mains current actually is 180v as he says.

I'm no expert but what he says could make sense, I'd suspect the Phillipines electric services isn't as solid/reliable as UK mains so something that regulates the voltage/current makes sense. No different to a volt reg in our cars.

[shambly]

I'd ask him to bring an AVR of the type he is proposing to your house and demonstrate that it magically makes it work.... (plug in versions exist). I'm surprised a washing machine is that fussy but 180V is rather low...

To try and help with the questions...

Having googled, AVRs work in the range 180-260 volts (ish) to narrow the output range tighter to the ideal 230v (imagine switching between different transformer tappings that will multiply up the voltage if it is low, and divide down if high). This steps up/down the current at the AVR input which is where the extra energy is coming from (your quart from a pint pot).

All electrical cable causes the mains voltage to drop and this is proportional to length of cable and current ,and dependant on the cross sectional area of the cable. A small cross-sectional area cable will drop more voltage than a thick cable.

30m of 1.5mm CSA conductor mains cable is said to drop 11V when you are drawing 13A whereas 2.5mm would drop 7V and 4mm 4V.
At 180V you have a lot of drop there - either a lot of other current drain, a longer run of the thin cable than you think, and/or the cable is getting very hot and making matters even worse.

Simon

[redrobin911]

I've limited knowledge but 180v is low for some electronic circuits to work if used to 220v -240v. I've gone from 120v - 240v in my motorhome with a beefy 5kw transformer so in practice this will work but not sure of what his box of trick will do - I think he's on the right tracks - again 3kw doesn't sound wrong either. I agree with others - bring one along and lets see it working.

[Bruce M]

Get a volt meter and measure (if possible) the volts at the start and end of the 30m cable. With no load, it should be the same but it might drop with a large load if the cable is undersized.

The voltage can be raised by a fixed amount using a transformer. The input watts (volts X amps) remains the same as the output but the current changes to comply with the laws of physics ("no free lunch").
Variable adjustment requires electronics but the same principle applies.

However, if the cable is undersized, you'll be fighting the problem. High load (current / amps), overloads an undersized cable, this is in effect a "resistance", therefore there is a change in voltage along the length of the cable because the cable has become part of the load. Using the AVR to raise the voltage will increase the current required which (if the cable is undersized) just compounds the problem.

[Mick Cliff]

Thanks guys.
Armed with your advice I will get him to install the AVR and 'prove it'!
Two slight snags: Everywhere in the Philippines is closed now until Monday (Holy week, whatever that is!); and the way they work here is money up front, so if it doesn't work I've lost out (a Yorkshireman's nightmare!)!
Fingers crossed....

[Mick Cliff]

....I'd suspect the Phillipines electric services isn't as solid/reliable as UK mains so something that regulates the voltage/current makes sense.....

Definitely not solid/reliable!

[Mick Cliff]

I don't know much about electrics, and I know even less about the Philippines, however would something like this work?

A good solution - it would help me lose weight (positive!) but in 35degC I wouldn't last long (negative!)

[Mick Cliff]

Little update.....
Thanked the repair man for his input so far but commented that I did not think his AVR soluton was the right answer. Went on to say that if he installed the AVR and it worked then I'd pay, if not then no pay.

He bit!

Prompt reply was that he'd come to the house on Saturday and try a TRANSFORMER (!) which sort of confirmed my suspicion that I was being taken for a ride regarding the AVR.

Time will tell....

Oh! The cable length is nearer 50 metres, not 30 as I'd originally estimated

[jb]

I know very little about this however I would worry that a large load on a narrow cable would be a fire risk and would want to replace it with the biggest I could get to work.

[Mick Cliff]

I know very little about this however I would worry that a large load on a narrow cable would be a fire risk and would want to replace it with the biggest I could get to work.

I quite agree Jason. Comparing the cable that feeds the house to the one that feeds the laundry area they are both the same, as far as I can tell. Seem to remember buying 6mm2 cable for the house connection, so should be OK.
Fire risk is a perennial problem here - the majority of the houses (Nippa huts) round me are constructed entirely of bamboo. My house is block work and reinforced concrete with barely any wood (just to p1ss off the termites!)

[jb]

Hi Mick
It is good to p155 off the termites!
My brother had a problem with them in Australia in a wood framed house.

[fgmec]

With a simple voltage tester (about 10 euro) You can check the voltage just after the power meter main switch (the energy company's one).
If You will find about 220V, (having switched off all the appliances) the problem is in your home wiring.
If it is lower, You will need the transformer.