A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

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Kirklands 904
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A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

This dream started way back in the 1960's when the first 904's appeared on the English club racing scene. I owned a 1958 356A cabriolet at that time and had pals racing TVR's so the 904's were very conspicuous on the club circuit at Silverstone.

I fell in love with the 904 at that time but realised I would never be able to afford a genuine one but could dream that one day it might happen - you can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket! Years passed, marriage, kids and a career took priority but in 1993 my wife joined me in USA for our 25th wedding anniversary and brought a present for me - a Les Leston steering wheel which she had bought at the local auction house in Banbury. As it turned out this was the start of the "Project" but I didn't realise it at the time. Whilst in the States, I had had a mid-life brain storm and had bought a 356SC coupe from the original owner to remind me of the good old days!

I retired in 1997 and moved to the south of Scotland in 1998. Amongst the items which moved with us was a 1967 912 as well as the 356SC which had been shipped from North Carolina in one end of the container of household effects. Before that, it's engine had been rebuilt by Harry Pellow and it had been re trimmed in leather in Raleigh. The 912 was to replace the 912 which we bought in 1972 on our return from Australia and which ended up being used more by my wife than by me. The latest 912 had been used as a racer and came with a spare engine but was in pretty poor shape so there was quite a lot of bodywork repairs necessary. However it was finally finished and on the road by 2000.

So whilst there was a 356 and a 912 in the garage, there was still room for something else and I needed a Project to give me a challenge. I had been collecting book, magazines and pictures of the 904 and boring my pals rigid with my obsession with the 904 to the extent that on a visit to South Wales, my oldest pal present me with a print of a Porsche GA of the 904. This had been obtained through an industrial designer contact who had worked at Porsche on the 928.

I now began to realise that there could be a possibility of realising the dream of owning a 904 not by buying one but my making one and so the "Project" was started.

The first purchase was a 8 ft x 4 ft 25 mm block board on which a centre line and two transverse lines 2300 mm apart to signify the wheelbase were drawn. The next purchase was a small drawing program "Deltacad" for my computer with which I could draw the chassis and body. The Porsche GA was scaled at 100mm intervals to allow the body shape to be drawn. By this time I realised that the difficult part for me would be the body since I had done nothing like this before. The mechanical side was considered to be easier but perhaps this confidence was misplaced.

The idea was to build the basic shape of the buck in wood. Over many months a wooden buck was made so that the critical dimensions could be finally attained by building up the final shape in Plaster of Paris over an expanded metal mesh. The critical dimensions were obtained from all the published data that I could find giving height, width etc. but also by scaling the Porsche GA drawing.

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Bill

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Ian 2.2S
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Ian 2.2S »

Wow, going to enjoy this :)
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jb
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by jb »

That looks amazing
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by jwhillracer »

That must have kept you busy in those long Scottish winter nights! Brilliant!
Now I can waste even more time on DDK............. until the 911 comes back from the spray shop. :bounce:

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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by bjmullan »

Fantastic Bill, will enjoy this story ...
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by 911hillclimber »

What a lot of work! Fab.
Will be really good to see this one unfold as a body, and then what chassis I wonder?

What windscreen was used?
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Bootsy »

911hillclimber wrote:What a lot of work! Fab.
Will be really good to see this one unfold as a body, and then what chassis I wonder?

What windscreen was used?

Big clue in Bill's other thread!
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by mdmax72 »

What a cool project, welcome aboard.
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

To continue with the story.

When the front half of the wooden buck was more or less finished, it dawned on me ( I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the box) that I needed a windscreen. It is a lot easier to make the buck fit the windscreen than it is to find a windscreen to fit a buck.

A telephone call to Porsche brought a very sniffy reply as to what chassis number I had and that screens were no longer available but that "plastic" ones were available in California. At that time an article appeared in "Classic and Sports Car" about a company making screens for classic cars such as Morris Minors, Austin A40s and the like. The response to my call was that they had never heard of a Porsche 904 but after a few minutes conversation I was told that the computer records showed that there was a mould. The chap told me that he had been there over 25 years and that the mould had never been out of the rack but he would send me a drawing to check it was the correct item. I was then told that they could not supply me direct as they had agents throughout the country. I was to order a specific part number from the Scottish agent but also to tell him that I had been told the ex-works price (I was not told the actual price) to avoid the agent adding too much to the selling price. The telephone call was duly made and after a few expletives about the price a deal was done. Six weeks later a screen was delivered. So remember that a mould exists the next time you need a 904 screen!

The buck could then be formed round the screen but the decision had to be made at that time as to how the screen would be retained i.e. What seal was needed! A seal was purchased from "Woolies"and the screen opening shaped accordingly but more of this later, much later.

I was still in touch with the ex-Porsche designer Dawson Sellar who advised me not to make the moulds of fibreglass (GRP) but to use the "Polydur" tooling system which was much easier to use, did not shrink to the same extent as fibreglass and could be cleaned off tools with water. A powder and liquid are mixed to make a gel coat, then another powder and liquid are mixed to wet "Neomat" fibre which can then be laid up on the buck to make the moulds. The moulds cure in 3 to 4 hours and can be pulled from the buck after this time. Dawson invited me down to his home near Dalbeattie to learn the technique when he was next making a mould for his business of designing and making prototypes. It really is a lovely system and the moulds are good enough to pull half a dozen or more mouldings off each mould but they are not for full production.

As you will see from the photographs the wooden buck was covered with an expanded aluminium sheet and the Plaster of Paris put on top to give the final surface. I now know more about the setting time of Plaster of Paris than most orthopaedic departments in hospital. What surprised me even more was that I could buy 25kgs bags from the local builders merchants.At this point I made up some special tools from hard wood that I could use for sanding down the Plaster. One was nearly 1000mm long and dead straight to get the only non-curved area i.e. the doors, really flat. An orbital sander attached to the shop vacuum catered for the rest of the forming. This was the really difficult part in that the curves had to be uniform and in this, thin fibreglass rods (left over from building the children's kites years before) could be used like French Curves were used in preparing engineering drawings. Whilst every effortwas made to have both sides the same, I also realised that you cannot see both sides of a car at the same time


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To get the buck into a state that moulds could be made now meant days and weeks of adding body filler and sanding with finer and finer wet and dry to get the necessary finish. It must be admitted that at one point it was obvious that one of the rear wings was not of the right contour, so out came the hammer and the Plaster of Paris removed and the whole process started once more. When it was finally good enough for me (not perfect but good enough), five coats of wax mould release were applied "Polish it on, Polish it off" Now I felt like the Karate Kid

The next chapter will be about making the moulds.
Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

I am hoping that I'll die before I grow up!
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by mycar »

All looks perfectly straight forward.

:shock:

Do go on.
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by silverfox »

Hi Bill

What a great thread, this is going to be an addictive one.
Hope your well and look forward to seeing you in the spring when we are all back on the road again.
Paul
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Kirklands 904
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

Well, the Karate Kid is back with the next bit of the story.

Before the polishing, the buck was now in the state that can be seen below where the surface was smooth and ready for a three coats of filler which were then sanded and polished as mentioned before.


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You will note that the windscreen is in and the buck has been formed round it.

One of the things that was challenging the grey cells, was where does one make the split lines for the different moulds. A call to the "Polydur" company resulted in the sales rep calling in to advise a very ignorant potential moulder. It was interesing to learn that he had been in Blackpool the previous week advising on the very same problem. This only emphasises how long ago the process started! However, the ecouraging thing that he said was my completed buck was very similar to that at TVR.

At this point I have to admit that at times I would break off from the task for periods of days, weeks and months at a time. It made such a difference that I only worked when I wanted to and there was no time pressure until recently when I began to realise that time was not infinite but very finite!

The main moulds were

a) Front wings and area in front of windscreen and bottom part of the "A" pillar
b) Bonnet
c) Roof including top of "A" pillar and "B" pillar down to the split lip
d) Tail which was a composite mould comprising both rear wings and the buttresses, engine lid and the tail panel
e) Doors LH and RH.

After a small trial on the headlight covers, my wife was volunteered to mix the ingredients to keep a supply of fresh material coming whilst I wet the fibre and laid up the moulds. A real team effort and well beyond the accepted limits of wifely duties. Now, she is proud to tell people that the 904 is the car WE built and I am delighted to acknowledge the help and patience she showed over the 12 years. Perhaps she was just glad to see me go over to the garage/workshop

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At the same time as the buck and moulds were being made, There was much thought going on about the chassis. Some firm points that were fixed

1) Chassis should be a space frame rather than a ladder chassis as on the original.

2) Chassis tubing should be square rather than round just for ease of manufacture. Production tools consisted of a hacksaw, various files, electric drill and a hobby arc welder. Manufacturing facilities were later added to with the addition of an angle grinder with cutting and grinding discs and a pillar drill.

3) The suspension should be similar to the 1964/1965 state of the art. i.e Double wishbones on the front and links and radius rods on the rear.

4 As much of the 914 should be used as possible. However, it was in a poor condition as can be seen from previous photographs.


More to follow at a later date.
Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

I am hoping that I'll die before I grow up!
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Hebster52 »

Fantastic work!! :D
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by oliver365 »

awsome :wink:
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by sladey »

Fascinating
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
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