A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Replica owners or enthusiasts are very welcome

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Kirklands 904
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

As well as thinking a lot about the chassis, four books were being read more than once

1) Build Your Own Sports Car by Ron Champion
2) Competition Car Composites by Simon McBeath
3) Race and Rally Source Book by Alan Staniforth
4) Competition Car Suspension by Alan Staniforth

The two Alan Staniforth Books are an absolute God-send to beginners starting out in chassis design and suspension set-up.

At this stage, it was realised that the 914 front Macpherson struts could be modified in the usual manner by cutting off the top of the tube in the hub, welding in a threaded plug to take a rose (heim) joint which could then become part of the top wishbone.

So now we were into front and rear roll centres, effective swing axle lengths, wishbone angles, chassis mounting points, steering rack location to avoid bump steer etc etc.

Some of the design work around that time is shown below.



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At the same time as thought was being put to the front suspension, I was wondering what to do about the rear and particularly what would be a suitable rear upright. This was solved on a visit to a The Classic Car Show at the NEC where Gardiner Douglas (gdcars.com) were exhibiting their Lola T70 replica.
Lo and behold the rear upright seemed to fit the bill. A subsequent visit to their factory in Long Bennington near Newark, Nottinghamshire revealed that the uprights took Ford Sierra/Scorpio hubs, discs, calipers etc. After the usual exchange of funds, I left with the pair of uprights shown below.

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The next job was now to obtain the necessary Ford parts and through a combination of used parts, refurbished exchange calipers, new ventilated discs, and alloy wheels from a Scorpio Cosworth, the rear corners were built up. The bottom wishbone and top link could now be made up from CDS tubing together with the top and bottom radius rods. A pal in Edinburgh - Sandy Cormack had a lathe so I spent days on and off with him turning threaded insets for the wishbones/links and various spacers to suit different rod ends. Sandy is making a Porsche 906 replica utilising a Boxster as his donor car so we give each other mutual support as we progress our respective projects.

It became very clear at this point that the idea of using the 914 front corners adapted for double wishbones was not going to work since the 1960's design of discs and calipers looked like bicycle brakes compared to the ventilated discs and Collette fist type calipers on the rear. The only practical solution was to fit Ford Sierra/Scorpio front corners. This, of course, meant a complete redesign at the front since the pickup points on the Ford hubs were completely different from those on the 914 which resulted in different wishbones and pick up points on the chassis. The steering arm was in a different place which meant that the steering rack mounting had to be moved. Since the steering rack was now in a different place the steering column had to be relocated. The chassis then had to be modified to cater for the new position of column and so on and so on.

The uprights were modified by fitting a threaded plug into the top location where the Macpherson strut normally fitted to to the Ford Hub to convert to wishbones top and bottom.

As I said at the beginning of this tale, the objective was never to make a replica but to have a lookalike or fake!!

So, the decision to use Ford Sierra/Scorpio corners allowed me to acquire a selection of parts for the front which were again second hand, exchange or new. The fronts now had ventilated discs and large Collette calipers and the top and bottom wishbones could be made accordingly. These were fabricated by my pal - Peter Bentley who has a fully equipped machine shop in Monmouthshire. Peter was the chief of development at at Henley/Lansing Henley/Linde forklift trucks and nothing in metal is beyond him! When the wishbones at the front and rear had been sorted out the chassis could be finalised. All through this process, chassis design had been keeping pace (or not!) and a prototype chassis made by cutting tubes and tack welding them in place. I was lucky that there was a fabricator - Dick Noble - in the village who helped out to the extent that it would never have been built wihtout him.

Before the final chassis design was sorted, decisions on what pedals and their location had to be sorted out and mounting plates and studs incorporated. How was the engine and transmission to be mounted?, what mountings were to be used? - I finally used competition 911 units from Pelican Parts for both.
Where was the battery to go? Where was the fuel to go and what sort of tank was needed. The story of the tank is worth telling but it can wait for another day!

The overall design philosophy was to optimise the torsional strength in the cockpit area by incorporating deep side members and a tunnel tied in to the front and rear bulkheads. The sides and bottom of the chassis would be covered in 16swg aluminium sheet as would the top of the chassis above the pedals where the fuel tank would sit and up to the front bulhead except for an opening where a sump in the fuel tank would come down to just above the steering rack. The sump was to prevent fuel surge on cornering. I still realised at that point that I might be going quickly!


At last the chassis was taken to Dick's workshop for final MIG welding. The results are shown below.

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Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by haasad »

Bloody fantastic, this is really inspiring. Do you have any shots to share of the suspension set up that evolved or am I getting ahead ....relly interested to see the adaption of a strut to form the front upright .
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by 911hillclimber »

That is a complex chassis!

Lovely stuff as Andy says.
Another good book is 'How to Build Motorcycle engine Racing Cars' by Tony Pashley

It is full of the right stuff for you, I used it a lot for my Lola-Porsche hillclimb car mods.

The Staniforth books are true bibles, his 'string' computers are legendary.

Andy, chopping down struts for uprights has been done for many kit cars using the ford parts, a sound approach and keeps everything really strong and true.

Have you considered using Westfield alloy front uprights?

smashing project, very close to my heart
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by andytat »

What a fantastic build!
When is the next instalment due?

Andy
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Kirklands 904
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

Well! Here we are back again with another part of the story.

I now had a number of moulds and as I said earlier the first parts to be made, as a trial, were mouldings from the headlight cover moulds which it was hoped would be ultimately used to make "perspex" coverings. These were not a great success since the gel coat was streaky in colour and also was wrinkled. A trip to Eymouth to Gordon Riach Plastics (GRP) enlightened me to use more pigment in the gel coat and also to let the gel coat cure longer before applying the fibre and resin. Gordon proved to be a great help with his advice over the years.

With this limited experience, I then set to to make the major mouldings with the help on and off from my pal Martin Harrop with whom I had ridden motor bikes across USA in 2000

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From this last photo, you will see the difference in quality between the headlight covers and the other mouldings. A quite steep learning curve!!

As you will appreciate there were more moulds to make at the front - left and right front corners under the split line back to the wheel arch but also to incorprate the shaped parts at the front of the car to mount side/indicator lights and driving/fog lights , a central section for the oil cooler which would incorporate the air ducts for brake cooling on the original and a central cover for the front underside over the oil cooler. The two centre moulds could be made very simply from straight pieces of plywood and the cover from a piece of curved plastic gently warmed to shape.

The section which incorporated both wings then had to be joined to to the three front sections as shown below.

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As you will see from the above the doors have also been moulded and I shall start the next chapter with more on the doors and continue with the internal mouldings for the seats etc.
Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

I am hoping that I'll die before I grow up!
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by shambly »

Loving this thread. Please keep it coming; i'm sure you have many other silent readers...

Simon
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by mdmax72 »

That's the problem Simon, to many silent readers.

So is this purely a track car or is a road worthy car aswell??
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by jamie »

Mega project!
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Kirklands 904
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

For those still following the thread, here is the next chapter.

You will recollect that I said that 4 moulds had been made for the front of the body, I should have said 6 since I forgot about the two mouldings into which the headlights are fitted and which make up the floor in the area under the clear headlight covers. Whilst making,the moulds for this area, I rolled two pack paint filler on to the plug with a sponge roller which gave a "dimpled" finish to the mould which then was transferred to the moulding itself. Hopefully you will see this in subsequent photographs.

The door shells had been made and can be seen in the last post bolted in place to keep the body reasonably square and the different parts in the correct location relative to each other. I decided that the doors needed to have a metal frame inside to make the mounting of the hinges and locks easier and to add strength against side impact. On subsequent reflection, I am not sure that this was one of my best decisions!!

However, at vast(!!) expense a hydraulic pipe bender was added to the workshop and tubes were cut, bent and welded into the door frames shown below. These frames could then be fibreglassed into place on the door shells to make complete doors. This was an absolute bugger of a job since the frames had to be located on the hinges mounted to the chassis uprights and then the doors bolted to the rest of the body in their door opening so that they were in the correct position and the the frame and the door tentatively stuck together with fibreglass from inside before removal and final bonding. Let's say it did nothing for the grey hairs!!


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For those of us into 904's you will remember that the originals had the cockpit/ seats etc as fibreglass mouldings incorporated in the body shell. I made a plywood buck on the chassis to give the shape of the seats , the sills and the tunnel and from that made a mould. Once the mould had been extracted from the back, wooden pieces were added to the seat bottom and back to give strengthening to the moulding which can be seen below in situ on the chassis.

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Next chapter in a few days.
Bill

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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by shoestring7 »

Amazing stuff - keep the updates coming!

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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Pandora »

Interesting stuff indeed - quite takes me back to my days working with Dawson. I remember him mentioning a 904 project, was this a few years back he was involved? He's one of the nicest guys, and lots of fun.

As you're fairly local, I'll look forward to seeing the car 'in the plastic' sometime.

Al
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by dragonfly »

Wow, only just spotted this. What an incredible project and I look forward to future instalments.
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Kirklands 904
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

For those of you waiting for the next instalment, be patient, I will get it out in the next few days.

I would invite "Pandora" and any others to come and see the car at any time.

My pal Alex and I have just brought it back from Yorkshire on Monday having had a proper exhaust system and a roll over bar fitted as well as the suspension set up correctly. I now have 12 weeks to get it sorted before the Hill Climb season starts.
Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

I am hoping that I'll die before I grow up!
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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by 40 scout »

Bill you are nuts !! :shock:

Take my hat of to you sir :)

Keep up the amazing work :wink:

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Re: A Dream Fulfilled - MY 904FF

Post by Kirklands 904 »

Steve

I will take your comment as a compliment but it reminds me of the saying " it takes one to know one!"
Bill

904FF (Mike Bainbridge 2.4S engine and transmission)

I am hoping that I'll die before I grow up!
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