VIN and engine number locations on 1973 T coupe

[Flat 6]

Hey all,

Had previously contributed occasionally on here when I had an SC some years ago.

I am due to fly over to London next week to conclude the purchase of a 1973 T. The red one just sold on ebay if anyone was following. Seems an OK car, running restoration with MOT. Importantly, Herr Noack at Porsche has confirmed matching numbers. I'll decide how heavy to go at it after a few weeks of ownership. Eyes wide open anyway!

My query is driven by a horror story a pal of mine relayed. He has come across a situation where the identity of a pre-IB car was altered by welding in the VIN from an older car into a newer body. I have no particular reason to doubt the provenance of this car, it having been imported in 2012 by Tech 9 but I would nevertheless like to be totally sure before I hand over the readies.

I know that there is a VIN stamped in the luggage compartment just rearward of the spare wheel well on the o/s. I guess this is what could be easily changed by some skilled butt welding. Should there also be a plate on the o/s inner front wing like on later cars? Also, I read somewhere about a VIN also stamped somewhere else - near a knee pad - presumably under the dashboard?

Where is the engine number on these cars?

Anything else I can do to verify identity other than above? Time machine?

Many thanks,

Al

[davep]

In 1973 there is an aluminum tag on the front lid slam panel. There is a production # stamped into the lower dash frame, hidden by the knee pad, and generally below the radio opening. Herr Noack may be able to confirm if your production # matches your VIN. I can make an educated guess, but not much more.
Engine # is on the right side of the main engine case on the upright support for the fan; it faces the right side of the car.

[911hillclimber]

Just seen this on another thread on DDK:
chassis number by ash tray in the centre.

[Nick Moss]

That is the production number, not the chassis number, which can be used to identify the production year, but is of no other use in IDing the car. In the picture above 103**** denotes a 1973 MY car

[squirdan]

But also there are many ways of identifying a newer body regardless of what vin has been stamped on it

Stuff like the parcel shelf pattern and those little vertical vents at each side of the dash

Others on here will know the detail!

[squirdan]

Ps if you want a 2nd opinion Robert Barrie lives in sw11 not far away

[911hillclimber]

I stand corrected Nick.
Why so many stamped numbers on a shell?

[davep]

I believe that the production # can be decoded as follows:
format XYZabcd
X=0 replacement body
X=1 production body
Y=0 coupe
Y=1 targa
Y=2 Karmann coupe
Y=3 Karmann 914/6 targa
Y=4
Y=5
Y=6 Speedster
Z= last digit of model year beginning 1969
Z=9 1969
Z=0 1970
Z=1 1971 and so forth
abcd is the sequence #
Note that there is no coding for 911 or 912, for LHD or RHD, for sunroof or the RS variant.
My thought is that the production # (also the VIN through 1968) is an identifier stamped into the body very early in manufacturing, possibly before the body colour is painted. The actual VIN is stamped later I think.
There is also a Karmann body # stamped separately; very early cars (all 912) had this # on the top of the dash and quickly moved to the rear of the tunnel.
Early cars also had the last digits of VIN stamped into the headlight buckets, doors and lids so that these fitted parts could be kept with the shell through the production process.

[Flat 6]

Thanks to all for your help.

I have emailed Herr Noack to ask if he can give me a production number for this car.

It doesn't look like this production number would be that easy to get at in a normal car? Anyone know how the knee pad above the ash tray is held on? If there are rivets then it is unlikely the current owner will be keen for me to start drilling!

Just to clarify, the VIN is stamped into the base section of the luggage compartment just rearward of the spare wheel well and also on a plate on the slam panel and nowhere else.

Can anyone suggest definitive features that would confirm that this is a 1973 car? Presumably opening rear windows is a good start! What is it that is different about the rear parcel shelf?

Thanks again,

Al.

[210bhp]

The chassis number is also written in crayon under the top dash pad on the bulkhead just behind the clock binnacle (on a lhd car). You will need to remove the front screen and the dash pad top to get to see it.
If its a car from the USA then the chassis number could be on a plate in the front screen pillar LHS visible from outside the car and also on a sticker on the LHS B post only visible when you open the door. Unlikely to be still there if its had a repaint.

73 cars had black bordered front and indicator rear lights, black letters and 911 badge on the engine lid, body colour everywhere (no black), possibly inertia reel seatbelts, plastic induction stacks............ Etc


Regards
Mike

[davep]

Porsche will confirm that a given VIN matches a given production number, but will not provide a production # for a given VIN.
The production # is easy to get to on the dash.The knee pads are just bolted in place; studs and nuts I believe.

[Flat 6]

Many thanks all,

I've uploaded some photos here:

http://s250.photobucket.com/user/allenw ... how/73%20T

I had noticed that the front indicator surrounds should be black like the rear ones. Any other aspects of the car that seem out of place. The car was sold in the US in April '73, must be one of the first with CIS?

Chassis no is: 911 310 2386
Engine number: 6134457

Herr Noack has confirmed this engine no as original so I'll be happy assuming these numbers also appear on the car!

The under-dash aircon might make accessing the production number more difficult?

Thanks again,

Al.

[Lightweight_911]

It might be worth pulling the gauges out of the dash & checking/comparing the dates codes on the back of them.

Same goes for the Fuchs wheels (checking/comparing the date codes).