DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

We are planning on driving to the French Alps next February, up to a ski resort at around 1800m. And my thoughts have moved on to whether we need / should fit winter tyres. Have quite happily used hire cars before in the alps, only fitting snow chains when necessary (which hasn't actually been that often) which has been effective so far......

We have a 5 Series BMW - not taking the 356! - with dreaded run flat tyres, which would be the car used.

Would putting winter tyres (on different wheels presumably) affect the insurance and possibly mess up the low tyre pressure sensor?

Presumably you do not fit snow chains over winter tyres?

Can snow chains replace the need for winter tyres in the alps?

Many questions for which I would appreciate some thoughts and possibly answers.

Yours

Aircool.

I fit Hankook Icept winter tyres every winter to 911 and daily driver, they are cheap and virtually unstoppable. It may be worth contacting BMW for advice, my brother got a set of winter wheels and tyres for his wife's Mini for around £500 (IIRC) a couple of years ago, they store your summer kit as well. It may be a requirement to fit chains in France, try the AA for info.

A friend of mine in the UK has a 5 series which he fitted Winter tyres and wheels last year, I think he got them from Ebay for less than 500 quid. Also I know that Mike Moore fitted them to his Alpina. Contact BMW, or your local fitter regarding fitting and tech issues. It is a legal requirement to have them fitted in Germany from October to Easter O to O, but not in France....though they would be a great benefit in the Alps.

If the conditions get really bad then you would still need to fit chains, but if you stick to the main / travelled roads you should be ok.

As Nick says, it would be worth looking at the AA etc for full info


Chris

aircool wrote:Would putting winter tyres (on different wheels presumably) affect the insurance

Some insurance companies will try to charge an 'admin fee' if you tell them about fitting them. Which is a nonsense as they're not a modification.

Agree with all the above. You can fit chains over winter tyres, but lets be honest if you need to do that it's time to find a different route!

Most problems with chains and modern car come from wheel arch clearance and many manufacturers will specify a smaller 'winter wheel' for this purpose.

I have been using winter tyres on my DD from November until April since 1995 and never looked back. Even in the UK, the cars felt a lot more surefooted below temperatures of 7degrees Celsius. I live rurally now and there is no gritting until about 3 miles from the house, so it has been priceless!

I run it on a different set of rims and over two years, the cost even themselves out switching between summers and winter tyres. For the alloy and tyre combo to be able to have a chain over them, you need to have appropriate sizes: Often it means you have to go to an alloy an inch lower (from 18 to 17 e.g.) and drop a width at the back (say 255 to 235 or even 225)- your manufacturer or owners manual will say more.
Having said that, when I priced up a 530D with winter tyres and alloys at the dealers, they guys looked at me as if I was from a different planet.

I would source a set of OEM alloys on Ebay (often sold because they are not bling enuf, innit) so your TPS works, and then purchase a set of winters from tyre suppliers like Camskill or http://www.mytyres.co.uk or others.

Come April, you switch over and bob's your uncle. As with regards to the admin fee: I was with direct line and challenged them on it and they came back to me stating that as it was OEM wheels and tyre combo's approved by the manufacturer, it was not deemed a modification.

Take care,

Bert

aircool wrote:We are planning on driving to the French Alps next February, up to a ski resort at around 1800m. And my thoughts have moved on to whether we need / should fit winter tyres. Have quite happily used hire cars before in the alps, only fitting snow chains when necessary (which hasn't actually been that often) which has been effective so far......

We have a 5 Series BMW - not taking the 356! - with dreaded run flat tyres, which would be the car used.

Would putting winter tyres (on different wheels presumably) affect the insurance and possibly mess up the low tyre pressure sensor?

Some insurance companies used to use it as an excuse to charge a fee but last year the industry body recommended that they stop this. As long as the sizes are to manufacturer spec (check door pillar), you shouldn't be charged. The tyres shouldn't effect the pressure sensor which works by detecting differences in rolling diameter between tyres.

Presumably you do not fit snow chains over winter tyres?

If the snow is very heavy, you can fit chains over winters and as they are smaller, you should have enough arch clearance. You can manage without chains even in very snowy conditions with winters unless the snow is very bad.

Can snow chains replace the need for winter tyres in the alps?

Winter tyres make a big difference to grip, including on snowless icy roads (when snow chains are useless).

You can order steel wheels and winter tyre sets from mytyres.co.uk for circa £100 a corner (depending on sizes & brand).

With winters, on snow, the steering is very light and loose but the car still goes where you point it and stops too. You wonder why everybody else (in the uk) is going so slowly.

I did exactly as Bert suggests last winter; bought an identical set of BMW alloys on EBay (£120 for five) and fitted identical profile winter tyres. Even though the car's an auto - which I normally find a nightmare in snow - not once did I have an issue. Virgin snow on single lane roads, uphill & downhill, couldn't get the thing stuck no matter what. Sold the Landy this summer as was totally redundant.

for anyone interested , I'm about to sell a set of 4 lightly used AVON ICE TOURING ST 225/45R17 . £180 collected

They are brilliant winter tyres. Only got stuck with those on my old S3 when the depth of snow got over 10".

Wife's got a 5 series too (auto) running some 245/45-18 Dunlop RFT's (sorry I don't remember the model) and we never felt the need of chains while away skiing in the alps. eBay.de is full of original winter wheels for the 5 series, the shipping to UK might be a killer though.

Speaking about winter tires, I've got some studded Hakkapilittas in 145/70-10 waiting to go on my old mini for some ice driving back home in Sweden this upcoming winter

I'm another one; I've been using Continental winter tyres on my Golf Gti daily driver for three winters, and if I needed to keep mobile in poor weather wouldn't do anything else. They got me home from the Surrey Hills safely one snowy day of road chaos, and on a white Boxing day it seemed to be just my car and Range Rovers on the roads in West Sussex. I bought a set of the correct (handbook specified) 16" steel wheels from my friendly local VAG dealer and bought the tyres from QuickFit.

A noticeable drop in high speed straight line stability and the hassle of storing the 'spare' set of wheels are the only downside. Well, other than getting tooted and flashed as I breeze bye terrified road users doing 15mph on snowy roads.....

C>

I've drove a lot in that area in a 3 series and with out winter tyres forget it. After having to leave the car because it had zero traction, I had winters put on and the different was night and day.

Currently run an Audi S4 with Michelin Alpin PA4, a great tyre.

Bertroex wrote:I have been using winter tyres on my DD from November until April since 1995 and never looked back. Even in the UK, the cars felt a lot more surefooted below temperatures of 7degrees Celsius. I live rurally now and there is no gritting until about 3 miles from the house, so it has been priceless!

I run it on a different set of rims and over two years, the cost even themselves out switching between summers and winter tyres. For the alloy and tyre combo to be able to have a chain over them, you need to have appropriate sizes: Often it means you have to go to an alloy an inch lower (from 18 to 17 e.g.) and drop a width at the back (say 255 to 235 or even 225)- your manufacturer or owners manual will say more.
Having said that, when I priced up a 530D with winter tyres and alloys at the dealers, they guys looked at me as if I was from a different planet.

I would source a set of OEM alloys on Ebay (often sold because they are not bling enuf, innit) so your TPS works, and then purchase a set of winters from tyre suppliers like Camskill or http://www.mytyres.co.uk or others.

Come April, you switch over and bob's your uncle. As with regards to the admin fee: I was with direct line and challenged them on it and they came back to me stating that as it was OEM wheels and tyre combo's approved by the manufacturer, it was not deemed a modification.

Take care,

Bert

Totally agree with Bert, get the right tool for the job. Summer tyres are just that - they only work down to 5 deg C. Snow chains only really work in wet (near freezing) deep snow where you need to paddle your way out. If the road has been cleared at some point during winter then there will be compacted snow/ice which is where you need winter tyres as the hairline groves in the tread grip the ice. Studs are needed for ice or cold conditions -10 or colder. But the times you will need the extremes of these - chains/studs are rare.

sisu wrote:
Totally agree with Bert, get the right tool for the job.

Verbier 2012. Going nowhere without chains.