LYY 911D Restoration

[spillers]

Hi I am new to this so I recognise I have a lot to learn.

The first question after the reality sunk in that I had actually wion the bidding was what on earth to do about the shell. It seems to have rotted from the ground up. The roof and wings are the most substantial remains. There were two extremes of point of view

1) Use a donor car and just transfer a few bits of the old shell to remember the provenance
2) Start with the old shell cut off as much as needed of the metal and rebuild from the floor plan and bulkheads up - front bulkhead was completely rotted away and the rea is pretty much completely gone.

I guess there is a mid way where wings roof door pillars might be grafted on to a donor? I know old Bentleys and other interesting cars are rebuilt from an engine or pieces of a chassis.
Of course there is probably a school of thought that the engine gearbox, etc in reasonable condition could be sold on maybe should be sold on rather than try and rebuild what someone said would only ever be a mongrel. Well I'm not going to do that.

So what are the pros and cons of the two extremes? Then another question, who best to tackle the shell? Should this be the first task?

[210bhp]

Welcome to Ddk.

You have certainly taken a large bite to chew on for your first restoration.

The comments on the other thread (including mine) have made this look a questionable restoration but this is an important car and I think part of the commentary might just be tinged by a little disappointment/sadness at just how bad this 911 has been allowed to rot. It's importance perhaps wasn't visualized 20 or 30 years ago. I think we all would like to see it rescued if possible. As far as the bodywork is concerned I think you will have to ask more knowledgeable people than me. You you get plenty of advice and names for an honest appraisal.

I think the first thing I would do before you launch into the project is do an inventory of what you have.

67S parts are rare, expensive and hard to come by. I would not discard anything. I would classify as useable, template to copy from or scrap. Either way I would still keep everything. It's amazing what can be restored and I would also check everything for markings, manufacturer, and date stamps. Post up pictures and ask many questions and you will find lots of advice and help.

All I can say is good luck and I hope your S bring you lots of pleasure........ Eventually.

There are 22 RHD (known) 67S's survivors worldwide on my database so that's more than 50% of those made still out there. Rare car.*


Regards
Mike

*edit, and your's is the first one and the oldest survivor(?) as you are probably aware.

[squirdan]

welcome to DDK and congrats on taking on a very very interesting project

I am not really a detail person and that left for others but heres my twopenneth...

1. get a variety of quotes and opinions. many on here will have their favourite specialists, the names will be in no particular order the likes of Canford Classics, Early 911, Tuthills, Chesterton Coachworks, Autofarm etc and a lot of people will also say Barry Carter for the bodywork ( a one man band but guru )

2. whatever estimates you get, add 50% to costs and timings

3. a detailed thread on DDK is somewhat of a double edged sword for this car I would suggest. can of worms re ID, reshelling etc. It happens all the time, personally I dont have any issue with it all all. There has been recent discussion of such a reshell for sale by Autofarm recently, on DDK. All I am saying is, IF thats the route you go down, think carefully about putting it all in the public realm

4. everyone will say repaint it in its correct colour for maximum value and I would agree

5. IF you have the time or the energy it seems very popular to chase down as much history, previous owners etc esp for a car as rare as this. Also FYI you can source things like owners manuals and service books

6. As someone said elsewhere you can get most parts from Porsche. have a look at Porsche Classic

Good luck and enjoy it. The journey is almost as much fun as the ownership

[spillers]

Some of you asked for pictures. Just practicing:

Dash number


Engine number


Karosserie number

[davep]

I wish you the best of luck with the restoration. To the right of the engine # in the photo you posted, there is the type # 901/02, and below that there is a build # which will be in the 53xx range; please let me know what that # is. More info here:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums ... ne-Build-s
That forum would be another good one to join, and post your restoration thread on.

[Ant22]

Brilliant that you took this on. SWB s cars have a wonderful reputation, the first 67 RHD is special & deserves to be saved. As a personal owner I hope you will own it for a longtime once you lavish the necessary cash to restore. Hold long enough & the spend will be passed by value. If that takes a long time it means the emotional returns via enjoyment will be immeasurably larger! Good luck.

[steve wright]

Personally I only see one route being appropriate here: rebuild the original shell using Barry Carter (here on DDK) as he's restored cars that were worse than this. In fact most of the cars I often see at Barrys workshop, when deconstructed prior to being pieced together, look barely recogniseable as a 911. There are plenty of old historic race and road cars out there that have been restored from just the chassis plate or a postage stamp of remaining bodywork. By using the original shell, however small a percentage, you avoid the accusation of having reshelled the car, which destroys its intrinsic value and also exposes you to the risk of a duplicate inevitably showing up at some point. I don't personally see what the hang up is with recreating large parts of bodywork. Okay its not the sheet metal that it left the factory with, but then again none of our cars are on the tyres they left the factory with. Plenty of old cars are rebodied, especially when originally constructed in aluminium. Keep asking around, find the experts you click with, an then take a deep breath and restore her - she deserves it. Cheers Steve

[spillers]

Engine Build Number Overview



Engine Build Number Closeup

[davep]

Thank you, that is very useful. Later, when the engine is stripped, there are more numbers to find.

[Nick Moss]

John, good to see you here on DDK at last.

I walked John around the car at the auction and explained that to get from this



to something like this



was going to take more than most restorations. There is so little good metal to work with, and, unlike Ferry Man's restoration, there are no new factory panels (front inner wings, rear inner wings, tunnel, chassis rails etc.) available and no original front or rear bulkheads to work with, the only viable way to do this is with a RHD donor shell. The way and care that the existing panels are worked into the donor panels to retain the maximum of the original car is critical, not only to the integrity of the car, but the way that the restoration is accepted as such by the Porsche community.

[Grenoble39]

Hi All,
I am sure an expert like Nick is right, but it would be a shame if this car was reshelled with a RHD 912 as there are only about fifteen of these 'on the road' and about another 20 at some stage of restoration.

Nevertheless, good luck with it.

Howard

[911hillclimber]

And that is the dilemma?

Sacrifice a 912 for this very important car? Would make financial sense I think.
One more lost 912 but this car back on the road.

Maybe he will strike it lucky and find a very early car damaged in other 'adjacent' places so the roof and some more areas can be sensibly grafted on, but a tall order.
Very difficult to rationalize which way the car restoration should take and what is in spiller's head.

Is it fair to guess that the car has it's instrument pack and so draw roughly a horizontal line around the car and say anything below the waist line so drawn is u/s?

If you use the top half onto the bottom half of a 912 just what do you do about the bulkhead serial number? Make your own and let it in I think.

[Graham]

I have been involved with a 356 speedster restoration which was easily as bad as that, you cant pick up a donor 912 shell for them quite so easy and make it fit!, it was the fabrication route and use what you have.
I also know where a set of inner wings, in excellent condition are that I cut from a 67S shell are if you need them.
Of course when I cut that car up it was worth nothing, and not that long ago too really in the grand scheme of things!
Good luck

[spillers]

One very good piece of advice is to next inventory what I have.
I have a check list from Bonhams - they provided an inventory list to check against. You can see there are spares and extras of some stuff and there are some receipts from 1980-3 of things like door rubbers and the sun roof that somebody seems to have planned to use on the car. The early receipts (1980) including the sun roof were made to R W Turner of The Workshop Vale Quarry Road, Mansfield. Then in 1981-3 they were made to David Herbert (no address). All the receipts except the sunroof were Roger Clark Cars Leicester. Of course I would be interested in who owned the car before then but now to start on the more interesting job of building a list
Here the auction inventory:
PORSCHE 911s LYY 911D INVENTORY MAY 2013
• Porsche body shell —4 wings, front & rear windows suspension hubs & brakes
• Steering rack & steering links to steering wheel
• On 4 Fuchs wheels — with one spare (5 Fuchs wheels in total)
• Full dashboard - original Blauplunkt radio, dials, steering wheel with indicators & dash switches
• Gear lever & rod with handbrake
• Front bonnet with Porsche badge
• Rear engine lid with logos
• Rear bumper with over-riders & rear link panel
• Front bumper — Carrera style fiberglass
• 1 l/h door with window/frame & handle
• 1 l/h door with separate frame & quarter light
• 1 r/h door with separate frame & quarter light
• 1 r/h door (no frame/handle etc.))
• 2 new door handles i/c keys
• 3 assorted door handles
• 1 window winder handle
• 2 front headlights & rims, spare light/lens & miscellaneous items
• 2 l/h rear lights
• 2 r/h rear lights
• 1 spare rear light (possibly 356??)
• 1 l/h & r/h interior heat vents
• 1 set of weber carbs, air filter &manifolds
• 1 engine with alternator, fan housing & fly-wheel
• Distributor & engine cowling tub
• 1 starter motor
• 1 oil tank, filter cap & pipes
• 1 gearbox with mountings
• 1 clutch plate & pressure plate
• 1 clutch arm & thrust race
• 2 drive shafts
• 2 rear dampers — red
• 1 l/h side rear window
• 1 r/h side rear window
• 2 front seats & 2 rear seats with trims
• 2 1/h door trims & 2 r/h door trims (see photo)
• L/h & r/h sun visors with brackets & screws
• 2 rear view mirrors
• 3 door mirrors
• 2 aluminium bottom door sill trims
• 2 chrome window trims
• 2 chrome door trims
• 2 door top - inside trims
• 1 rear parcel shelf trim
• 1 spare r/h/d top dashboard
• 2 exterior trims with inserts
• L/h & r/h interior wheel arch covers
• 1 l/h & 1 r/h interior door handles
• Rear interior soundproofing trim
• 1 rear top trim cover
• 10 carpet pieces & floor-side trims
• 1 bag of rubber door seals
• 2 sets of seat belts
• 3 timing chain dampers (spares)
• 1 box nut screws & seals & interior lights
• 2 carb. Short link arms & 1 carb long link arm & cable wheel
• 2 black dampers (spares)
• 2 windscreen wipers
• 2 spare front brake discs & hubs
• 3 hood & boot lid struts
• 1 bonnet hinge unit
• 1 bonnet lock receiver
• 1 silencer
• 1 l/h & 1 r/h exhaust pipe set
• 1 engine lid lock receiver
• Fuel tank & filler pipes
• Electric fuel pump, ht coil & sundries — fitted in engine compartment
• Fuel filler cap (spare)
• 1 set of foot pedals
• Assorted windscreen drain sets
• Assorted Rubber gaitors

[Nick Moss]

The next thing is to check whether all those parts are correct for a 67S. Some of the parts that are listed on the car are unserviceable, such as the front suspension, some are incorrect such as the driver's door, the front bumper and the bonnet badge. Much on the list I guess will be unsuitable for the restoration and rather than clutter up your garage I would put them for sale here or on eBay. Good luck!