DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

My winter transport while the snow remains deep and the P cars are hibernating here is a 2002 Audi A4 Quattro 2.4 litre. It has a 5-speed auto/tiptro box which has just started to exhibit signs of some wear and tear. It is barely noticeable, but had just started giving a small occasional "shudder" as though something is slipping.

The local Audi dealer immediately said it needs a total gearbox rebuild, and wants to charge me an obscene amount of money to do it - probably twice as much as the car would bring if I sold it.

I'm not convinced though, and would like to make contact with an Audi group like DDK. At the end of the day it would probably be cheaper to import a reconditioned box from somewhere than go along with the hyper-inflated Japanese charges.

Does anyone have any advice in this regard?

Cheers
Greg

I've got a B6 chassis A4 too, it's an 03 plate 2.5 V6 Quattro Avant.

Recommend you use this forum:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a4-a4-cabr ... 6-chassis/

Very friendly and knowledgable bunch on there, and have helped me with some little niggles with my A4

HI Greg
try a gearbox oil change, it should have long-life oil in it, could you get the gearbox code out of the front of the hand book and I can look up the procedure to change the oil, there was a re-program on some of the box's for a slight judder on gear changes, you would need to check the coding in the gearbox control unit for that, what mileage has the car covered?

regards mike

I feel your pain - my gearbox on my Range Rover went after 75,000 miles - similar symptoms as you.

RR wanted 4 grand plus but I went to ' automatic man '

http://www.automaticman.co.uk/

half the price and the car (touch wood ) is still going...

good luck

Disco

There's lots of info on this all over the place - just google it.

Poss ECU fault, poss new uprated clutch pack, poss new gearbox.

Audi used to help out if the car had been serviced propely and the gearbox oil changed every 20k miles, though on a 2002 car I suspect they won't. It's done well to get as far as it has, they often die below 50,000 miles.

Why manufacturers persist with trying to reinvent the gearbox is beyond me. It never works.

This has always been a helpful site for me
www.audifans.net

Firstly, many, many thanks to all who responded. All comments were helpful and I will now be making contact with the two groups suggested.

In the meantime, the good news is that I THINK (still cautiously) that the issue might have been resolved by an oil change. Thanks Mike. It was all quite a production today, beginning with absolutely no idea how I was going to refill the gearbox after draining the oil. Couldn't find any obvious inlet anywhere. An initial phone call to the service department of the official Audi service centre in Sapporo resulted merely in being told it could only be done there. So, tooka a different tack and asked a Japanese mate who has a repair shop to phone them and spin them a yarn about a car that couldn't be moved, etc., etc. Produced the result we were looking for and, after a search, found the necessary oil and managed to get it in. There was less of the old stuff in there than there should have been, and it was a thick, nasty sludge - so obviously others before me have been challenged by the filling exercise.

Anyway, most of the slipping/shuddering appears to have vanished with the change. Though I have a nagging feeling that there has always been a very slight, almost imperceptible shudder at times during some changes. So I am rather interested in your comment, Mike, about the re-programming on some boxes for that reason. May not be relevant but . . .

The Japanese language handbook is particularly unhelpful and I can't find any codes in it anywhere. I'm wondering if you are referring to the codes for engine and transmission on the specs sticker in the spare wheel well. The numbers there are APS (Engine?) and DAK ECC. Or, alternatively, the model code, which I believe is E-8DAGA. And by the way, it is just coming up to 100,000 kms.

Which brings me to another significant discovery today - that the car is one year older than I thought it was and is actually a B5 chassis (thanks James, I wasn't aware of any of those details).

The other significant discovery was a used car export site in Tokyo that is offering a red 2.4 (exact same color) same model code nos. for sale at 80,000 yen (approx. 600 GBP). It has done only 50,000 kms and is allegedly in perfect running order. It is only 2WD, not Quattro, and does not have the leather and other options that mins does, but very tempted to buy it, put the motor and gearbox aside, and cannibalise a number of other bits and pieces that would not go astray. I live on a thoroughbred horse stud, so have the luxury of space to do things like that.

So all in all, a useful day, thanks to good advice.

Now looking forward to the end of the snow so I can get the 911S back out on the road.

Cheers
Greg

I wonder if it uses a ZF box?

The ZF boxes have a ID plaque on them with the ZF type code. The colour of the plaque also dictates which oil to use.

Some of the ZF boxes of that era use specific Esso oil.

Also, the filling technique for those is a pain (supposed to be lifetime oil). There is a fill hole on the side of the gearbox. the correct level is set with the box at roughly 35C and after shifting through all the gears.

However.......... it might not be a ZF box after all!

Didn't appear to have anything to indicate ZF on it. Filling was through a hole in the bottom (!!) of the box, behind the drain plug. Oil had to be pumped in through a flexible tube with the engine running until no more would go in and it began running out. Not sure exactly how that worked, but it seemed to go in laterally, get pulled around the box until full enough to hit some sort of overflow pipe (?) and start running out. Anyway, it seemed to work.

Cheers
Greg

HI Greg
just had a look in the manual for your car, and the gearbox has a filter in the oil pan, and has probably not been changed, as for the oil filling you got it correct, but the gearbox has to be at 35 Deg C and the oil has to dribble out of the filler, if it is put the plug in at the 35 Deg C, and job sorted, this is NOT engine temp, you will need some sort if temp tester or infer-red tester to put on the gearbox oil pan, have any of you Audi Teck's have a lap-top with the Ross-Tec program and the test lead to plug in to the car?, have a look hear, http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/download/ there should be a outlet some where near you to get the connector from, with this you can then have access to all the control units on your car with live info, the only thing you will not have is the key coding, if you would like the manual send me a PM.

regards mike

Ah, that sounds like the pesky ZF fill technique.

Might be a 5hp19 or a 5h24, both were made in a 4wd version. The 5hp24 has a higher torque rating.

If you google either number you'll get a part number PDF with the correct filling technique. Also the correct oil (very important!)

Finding the version for the 4wd version might be tricky but the fill technique is the same.

If it's a Multitronic, and it's a slip / judder on pullaway, then it's probably the clutch pack. Apparently a common fault on those boxes.

My brothers 2004 A4 had this changed and it went away. It cost just under a grand by an auto box specialist. When the problem came back a year later, he was then advised that as they had uprated the clutch pack when renewing it (to a 7 speed) it should have had a ECU re program too. He is about to have that done by Audi for about £250.

This is a good old Audi forum, where I'm sure you'd get advice on your fairly modern one. http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/

Good luck,

James

http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/

Forum run by a DDK member

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. I have signed up for the classic audi forum and am currently in a queue to be properly accepted as a member.

In the meantime, I finally managed to get an appointment at the Sapporo Audi Centre, which put diagnostic gear on the car and tell me:

They can detect "a bit or bits of metal" floating around in the box.
There are no parts available so pulling down and rebuilding is not an option
They can supply me with a factory rebuilt box for 900,000 yen (a little under 7,000 GBP) plus labour, plus . . . . and so on.

That is not an option, so I'm currently trawling around internet wrecking yard sites. Have found quite a large no of Audi transmissions, but none of them the 5 speed auto/tiptros that suit my car's spec.

One bloke told me that he believed an VW Passat box might be a straight swap, but no details on which model.

All very frustrating as it is a very sharp looking car, with all the top of the range trims and options, and nice wheels, has just been through its two-yearly compulsory inspection and is running - other than the gearbox shudder - superbly.

Anyway, I'll have to see what else turns up when I can get access to the forum.

The only consolation is that with the snow starting to melt at last, it won't be long before I can crank the 911S up again.

Cheers
Greg