DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

More details later. She now goes like a scalded cat.

I need a while to write down exactly what when and how, highs and lows etc but wanted to show you the pics in the meantime.

Tim (Impmad2000) is absolute legend for assisting me (well actually doing most of the work whilst I made cuppas etc). I can't thank you enough.

Before


After



Cheers

James

Looking good James, I must admit the attraction of a modern fuelling system that can be removed at a later date to fit the original system is appealing. Good power and better economy.

Kind Regards

Any dyno curves for the new system?

superb

Is the difference more in the overall delivery ?

A great move James. It looks very neat.

Deffo need the build up information....
I can still see coil, distributor, etc - is your installation fuelling only?

We only started the car on Thursday night and got her running smootly on friday night after a horrific discovery. Pics of that later.

Thanks John, If the engine was on MFI then I wouldn't have changed the fuelling but the Zeniths were wrong for an E so short of replacing the engine with another one that had MFI, this or PMO's were my sensible choices. I have only seen one 2.4E MFI pump lines etc for sale and that was for €3,999. Not a choice when I think I've done this install for around or just over £1K.

Domtoni, No dyno curves as I don't have the time nor money for a trip to Bob Watsons before CLM. It is something I want to do though as I have two before dyno sheets and I am a sucker for trying to measure things rather than say "oh yes, feels lots faster" but not be able to quantify it empirically. One of my fears of modifications is that everyone says "now goes like goes like a scalded cat" etc (which I have said!) but if you're replacing worn out/out of tune CIS/carbs with a tuned EFI system or new carbs then the difference will be like night and day hence my before dynos at bobs as I like to quantify things. I had 160bhp with my last non standard exhaust when the carbs were tuned/rebuilt and then had 146 with the new custom TurboThomas exhaust without having the carbs tuned for the new exhaust. I was getting close to believing that the exhaust was limiting my power as the small amount of 2.4E owners/racers I've spoken to says standard exhausts allow the most power for a 2.4E. Watch this space. I have a spare standard exhaust so at some point later this year or early next will consider putting that on, tuning it and benchmarking that one.

James, The delivery has effectively been turned up couple of notches. At Spa I was struggling to get over 90mph in 4th with my foot to the floor and struggling to get towards the redline so I dropped it in 3rd to get some revs but the car still wouldn't go any faster. There was little accelleration under these (extreme) heavy load conditions which is why I didn't do as many laps of Spa as I would have liked to (and spinning off scared the daylights out of me!!). Now I can hit the redline with ease with a passenger, uphill in 3rd and 4th before realising I was breaking the speed limit on the road by a considerable margin. Overall the car is much more happy and willing to rev and go faster in all gears. This is how I expected it to be from the start.

jb, Thanks. I wanted it to be as finished as I can so that others can see how its done, what it looks like and what changes they could make if they did theirs. EG, use the big CIS airbox or cut one down like mine, use a different airfilter etc. I know some people will be put off by this conversion as its not period correct, etc, but my car isn't matching numbers or concourse and I want it to be and run the best it can within my meagre budget. I still have the Zeniths and can put them back on if needs be at a later date but I'm not planning on it. I'm just waiting for some enterprising soul to work out how to turn a pair of Zeniths into throttle bodies..... Then there is an easy way of having EFI and its benefits whilst maintaining the look of originality under the engine bay.

Mick, Yes, Megasquirt is only running fuelling at the minute and WB02 sensor. Will be looking towards crankfire after CLM. What build up info do you want? I'll be posting more details tonight hopefully.

Hats off to you James (and Tim) this stuff is voodoo to me, sounds like a great result

I'm really impressed with what you've achieved there guys. Would love to see it some time. Where do inlet and injectors come from and where is the O2 sensor positioned?

Very nice, well done.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris,

Drop me a PM if you want to come round and see it if you're not going to CLM. I think its fair to say that Tim and I will both be attending the next Midlands breakfast club with our EFI'd cars.

The inlet and injectors are part of a Bitz Racing kit (www.bitzracing.com) bought from a fellow DDK member here : http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... megasquirt

I bought it after bumping it as it was too good to pass up on. The WB02 sensor is an Innovate LC1 that I bought from a chap on ebay from this store: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/efi-solutions I believe they are genuine resellers of tuneyourengine.com products and can offer help/advice too unlike some sellers who are just box shifters. Be aware of the difference. The sensor goes in my exhaust manifold before the back box. I'll post a pic later.

Cheers

James

hot66 wrote:Is the difference more in the overall delivery ?

James has gone from "Mild disappointment" to "Grinning like an idiot"
Hopefully the Rolling road numbers will back this up.
This conversion has been so easy, to me any way, and its my 3rd.
I can only praise the Bitz Racing kit as a beautifully simple way to put EFI into a CIS car. It can be adapted to suit an early car quite easily too
Effectively 3 days work. Tuned to present state in about 2 hours drive. Not quite perfect, but a very good start. I think this conversion will serve to make a good classic even more useable.
Enjoy it James .
Cheers
Tim

Nice work James and Tim, I'd love to try a similar setup on the 912 one day Must catch up with you both at the next brekkie meet.

James & Tim

Great work and having installed crank fire , fuelling is next for me

What needs to be done if replacing webers on 2.4 engine , ie bitz racing kit plus what do you need to modify as it seems set up for CIS engines ?

If you could do a list that would be great.

Paul

pb911 wrote: What needs to be done if replacing webers on 2.4 engine , ie bitz racing kit plus what do you need to modify as it seems set up for CIS engines ?

The Bitz Racing kit + a CIS inlet manifold, throttle crank ass, TB and airbox. And then you'll need to upgrade the fuel pump, fit a high pressure filter. Also worth checking that the car has a fuel return line to the tank ( I think a 2.4 will have)
In order to fit the CIS manifolds to an early engine that doesn't have cut outs for the injectors, and to save notching out the heads, we used Jamie's notched spacers between the heads and the manifold.
The wide band sensor is not part of the kit, but really helps when tuning.
Tim

Build details:

The plan was to install the electrics and get megasquirt up and running at the same time as my existing setup to ensure it worked and didn't have any resets, then wait a week then change from carbs to EFI the next weekend then tune the weekend after that. I had been given permission from the missus to work on the car on Saturdays as sundays are for house/garden things (:roll: ) as I'm spending a lot of time in Manchester again so need to spend time with the missus doing things she wants.

We started the conversion on Saturday the 12th at 9:30AM and by 7-8PM had checked out what we thought we needed in addition eg fuel hose clips, fuel hose etc. We installed the Megasquirt after I'd drilled a hole in my transmission tunnel and Tim had soldered up the cables that had been cut when the system was removed from the last car it was installed in. We put the WB02 sensor in and Tim cleverly put the LED and configuration button for this on my fuse box in the engine bay. We put in a relay and at the end of the day had the system managing the fuel pumps power.

Tim Soldering:

WB02 sensor bits in engine bay

WB02 Sensor in exhaust (only right hand side shown)


On Saturday the 19th the plan was to remove the carbs, replace the black engine shroud with a green one as I have an E engine then install the CIS inlets and a high pressure fuel pump. So much easier said than done. The Fuel pump was a sod and Tim lost some skin off his knuckles getting the new one in as it turns out the hose we were trying to use was the wrong size but you can't tell that in the enclosed space its in. I struggled removing a couple of inlet manifold studs but a minute or so with a hot air gun soon loosened them up enough to get them out. I was running around buying more fuel pipe and fuel clamps (I counted 7 packets of various sizes when I tidied up tha garage). We fitted the Green shroud and test fitted the spacers Jamie had made. they fitted but were designed for a T head and my head has bungs in it where the MFI pipes went into which stood proud. Jamies spacers were then filed to suit this new profile. We had to make another hole in the tinware as the position for the accellerator rod is in a different place on the CIS kit. We were paranoid about putting kitchen towel down the openings when we removed the carbs as we know the consequences aren't good. We were tired when we finally finished at 9PM but had got it all built up and looking good. We turned the ignition to the second position a couple of times to prime the system with fuel with a view to starting the engine but the fuel filter in the engine bay was leaking like a seive as it is designed for low not high pressure. We called it a day then.

Naked engine

Hole in tinware and CIs throttle cable/mount

Paritally completed build

Completed build without air filter and with standard fuel filter.


I got special permission from the missus to go to a motor factors on the sunday to purchase a high pressure fuel filter suitable for a 1973 2.4 EFI motor. I ended up with a massive one and hoped it would work. It was for 2.5L turbocharged petrol engines so I thought it sounded right as they should have more power and drink more fuel than mine. Didn't have permission to fit it though as sunday is a gardening day. Frustrated as so close but so far. Was in Manchester again for the first few days of the week. Fitted the fuel filter last wednesday night. Tried to start it but it wouldn't catch. Tim came over on the Friday night and we got it started. Sounded like a bag of nails. Wouldn't idle and was seriously lumpy. We were both concerned as the engine wasn't this way on carbs so what had changed? (other than the obvious). We noticed that one of the CIS inlet manifolds was hot and the others were cool. This is not a good sign. We took the manifold off and found, yes you guessed it, a bolt rattling around in there. We had been so paranoid too as we know the consequences of stuff like this. We removed it with a magnet sellotaped to a stick (I have a high tech arage and modern tools) and started it up again. Night and day, sounded like it was on carbs not with a bolt in it. We then let it warm up and then hit the road to tune it. I drove and Tim tuned. He warned me it wouldn't be like driving it previously and may be on kangaroo juice. He was wrong. It was slightly out but within an hour and a half it was running better than ever before and I was as previously noted grinning like an idiot. It isn't fully mapped yet but is soo close so I'm not going to bother before CLM. We planned on using this last saturday to tune it but didn't and tuned Tims instead. We fitted the air filter on mine and closed the stuck heater pipe that was filling the cabin with heat from the engine which is unnecessary in this weather.


Things you don't want to find in your engine:



I think there are literaly a couple of things to do to finish it; put the cover back on the steering rack, refit the fuel pump mount and fit the rear passenger carpet. Shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

Hope this is of interest to others. I need to get the car to Bob watsons to see what bhp I'm getting now to compare to my other charts.

Cheers

James