Orange bar badge numbers and restoration

[Ian 2.2S]

OK you knowledgeable lot
I have been thinking of trying to find an orange bar badge to replace my red one. Thought about a repro one and ageing a bit. Also there was supposedly a genuine one on Ebay last week, from a 912? £70 ish. It seemed to good to be true, because it looked too good.
I have seen 'early' early ones with 901 on the back. My 1970 edition dealer parts catalogue gives the part no. as 901.559.210.20. However, this is also the no. all the dealers quote for the newer red badges. So your starter for 10 is - were there any orange bar badges with the full part no. on the back? If the answer is no, then ignore the rest of this!
I have also seen this ad quoting this no.
http://www.caporsche.net/partsforsale/e ... adges.html
Can't afford that!
The point of this rambling is that I remember taking a scruffy badge off my car when I restored it 12 years ago. So I've just rummaged through the garage and found it. Shame it turned out to be a red bar. BUT the odd thing is the back of it has a lot of molten multi coloured glass fused to it - see photo. So has the badge previously been restored? long shot! Could have been orange once? even longer shot.
I can't afford a genuine old one, so is it worth restoring this one and colouring it orange (is this what some unscrupulous dealers do?) The pimple background is the right texture whereas the repros look a bit too deep.
Does any one know an enamel restorer/ is it expensive?
Your thoughts, folks
Ian
Here it is :-

[210bhp]

Ian

I have never seen an original orange bar badge with the full part number on the back. Doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist!

There is a guy in Australia who will re-enamel a badge for you (a DDKer is having this done at the moment). It is not much cheaper than buying a reasonable original one and titivating it yourself. It could be even more expensive to convert a red to an orange. You would need to ask.

Original orange are expensive as you say.

I have a Stoddards repro (bright bling orange/gold) which you could 'age' if you fancied it. Otherwise I would keep trawling to try to find that elusive original that slips through the net. £75 for an original is extremely fortunate to find.

Regards
Mike

[TDK]

I've done a fair bit of research into this recently as I've been looking for an original orange bar badge to finish off a car that I'm having restored.

There's lots of discussion about what's original and what's not - both in terms of features and finish - and you do have to be very careful as there are quite a lot of fakes, copies and reproductions out there.

Essentially an original badge will be flat in profile rather than curved, have finer dimples on the front than a modern badge (and they don't show on the back), have opaque orange enamel bars (darker red came later - 1974 onwards and translucent red after that), soldered lugs on the back (later badges were moulded in one piece) and have a 901 number on the back with the ringed R symbol centred above it...



The badge you picture is definitely later as it's got a full part number, appears to have larger dimples on the face and has translucent red bars.

This is what original NOS badges look like, a bargain at $1000 each...



You can go down the route of having an old badge restored, but be warned, it's not cheap at about $300 and takes approximately three weeks.
I've decided to have an original badge restored and recently bought this item in the USA...



It's currently winging its way to Australia to be restored by Heywood Enamels where it will be stripped, have any metal repaired, be re-enamelled and then 23K gold plated before being returned to me. Once finished it should look something like this...



Now, a lot of people will tell you that the finish is too bright and shiny and that it should be a dull coppery colour, like this...



However, what you're seeing there is a 40 year old badge where most of the original gold plating has worn off, exposing the underlying alloy. Some people see this as very desirable patina and that may well fit the finish of many original cars - that's a personal choice. All I'm going to say is this; just look at the NOS badges above - they've got a bright gold finish.

The only possible difference - and this is something I'm still exploring - is that the original badges were plated with 10K gold. The restoration in Australia uses 23K gold, which will have a slightly shinier appearance, but my badge is going on a completely restored car with a brand new paint job, so I wanted it to look new. However, I'm going to wait for the badge to come back so that I can see the finish, but may then have it re-plated in 10K gold to get that perfectly original semi-matte appearance.

I hope that helps!

Simon.

[Ian 2.2S]

Thanks chaps
I thought this was probably the case. I am sure the glass on the back is out of a kiln when somebody has re-enameled it. So it may have been a bit of a amateur job.
Are all the repro orange badges from the same manufacturer? Do they vary in quality? And do the backs look like the originals i.e. 901 and R?
Ian

[Ian 2.2S]

And it looks like the Ebay one was probably original cos the soldered lugs had come off. Kick my self v hard, for not risking it.
Ian

[TDK]

And it looks like the Ebay one was probably original cos the soldered lugs had come off. Kick my self v hard, for not risking it.
Ian

Do you have a link to it?

[Ian 2.2S]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

This might still work
Ian

[TDK]

That's a fake!

On the back you can just about make out that the circled R above the 901 is offset to the right and the dimples can be seen. On an original badge the circled R is centred above the 901 and the back is smooth with no sign of dimples.

Simon.

[TDK]

If you want a reproduction badge then Roger Bray Restorations sell one... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Simon.

[210bhp]

I am going to offer an alternative view.
I think there are some very early original orange bar badges with dimples on the back. The smooth back came later. Shoot me down

There are at least two different shades of orange on the original enamel too over the years. One brighter than the other.


Regards
Mike

[TDK]

I am going to offer an alternative view.
I think there are some very early original orange bar badges with dimples on the back. The smooth back came later. Shoot me down

There is that view and a few people on Pelican Parts have mentioned it, but as far as I know no-one has so far been able to show a photo of an actual genuine example.

One thing is for sure; badges with full part numbers and dimples on the back are not early originals. I also stick by my original statement that the eBay badge is a fake - I think it is a reproduction that someone is trying to make look old.

I agree about the orange bars being different shades over the years - lighter orange first then dark orange, almost red and then onto the translucent red of the modern badges.

Simon.

[sladey]

After dipping repro one in various noxious substances, going over it with wire woold and then driving it every day for 4 yours it's got quite a nice patina to it - nothing a ddk anorak wouldn't spot at 50 paces but certainly not too bling any more

[Chemboy]

Any opinions on this badge, is it a genuine early orange?

[TDK]

Difficult to tell and I'm far from an expert, but my guess is that it's not original.

The edges of the detail don't look sharp enough. It's almost as if a mold was taken from an original badge and that was used to cast that badge - a fairly cheap, easy and common method of producing fakes of any cast metal object.

Do you have any photos of the front?

Simon.

[MikeB]

Can I be slightly cheeky

You find a great looking 2.2S and everything looks right on it, even the bonnet badge. Are you going to then ask the seller to pull the badge off the bonnet, so if you can see if it has dimples on the back ??